Casino Extreme - Гравець звинувачений у грі з обмеженими можливостями.

I made a $44 deposit and with free spins, had $68 to play with. I met my $900 playthrough amount and requested a $450 payout.

Now, the casino is telling me that because I played blackjack, I cannot make my withdrawal. I didn't play blackjack until AFTER I met my playthrough. Plus, if that is a restricted game, then they should have games locked so I cannot play.

But I made my deposit, made a tiny bonus and then met my playthrough and they have cancelled my withdrawal. I signed up for this casino because of their reputation but this isn't fair whatsoever.

Dear Joe,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. I have checked general bonus terms and conditions, and this is what I found https://casinoextreme.eu/terms-and-conditions:

„The Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of your original deposit from your withdrawal if the bonus is wagered on 777 slot, baccarat, craps, pontoon blackjack, roulette, sic bo or any live dealer game."

If you are aware of placing bets on restricted games while wagering your bonus, sadly, there is not much I can do to support your case at this time. I would strongly recommend reading all the T&Cs carefully before you start playing to avoid any misunderstandings in the future. Casinos try to design their bonuses to be as attractive as possible, but the rules must always be followed. We would like to see casinos implementing systems that would prevent players from placing bets on restricted games, but, unfortunately, this is not a standard practice yet. Please understand that until you place a request for a withdrawal your bonus is active; hence, all the bonus rules must be followed.

Please do not hesitate to contact me and forward your game history to petronela.k@casino.guru if you feel that you have been accused mistakenly, otherwise, I will be forced to reject your complaint. Thank you in advance for your understanding.

Best regards,

Petronela

Petronela,

Thank you for your response. The terms are really unclear. I made my deposit, received the bonus and played the playthrough. I requested a payout BEFORE I even started playing blackjack or betting high.

If I set that money aside for withdrawal without breaking any of the rules, then where is the problem? The amount I requested had not been part of breaking any of the terms. It was submitted and THEN they penalized me.

And then they tried to appease me by giving me a $30 credit which was less than I deposited anyway. They could have at least just subtracted out the bonus or met me in the middle and paid out half.

This is dirty business.....

Thank you, Joe, for your reply. Could you please forward your game history in Excel format to petronela.k@casino.guru?

Do I understand correctly that this is your cashier/deposit history? Could you please request your entire game history in Excel format from the casino? Thank you very much in advance.

Hi Pedronela, here is my gaming history.

As you’ll see. I made my $450 withdrawal request at 11:42 and began playing blackjack directly after the request. I had NOT been playing previously and none of the money I requested to withdraw was from blackjack winnings.

Thank you, Joe, for the screenshot. However, still I would like to ask you to forward the entire game history in Excel format.

Pedronela,

Also, per the terms and conditions.....

"The Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of your original deposit from your withdrawal if the bonus is wagered on 777 slot, baccarat, craps, pontoon blackjack, roulette, sic bo or any live dealer game."

The bonus was not wagered. The bonus was taken out of play and put into a pending withdrawal request that the CASINO then rejected and put back in to play so that I could be accused of breaking the rules.

Petronela,

That's all he gave me. I told him I needed the history from games on May 7th and this is what he sent me.

Thank you very much, Joe, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Jozef who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Hello Joe.

I absolutely appreciate that you shared your experiences with the Casino Guru team. We will now try to get in touch with the casino.

We would like to ask the Casino Extreme to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’.

Hello Joe, Jozef, Petronela,

Hope you all are well!

First, allow me to express how sorry I am for the inconvenience and the displeasure this entire situation has caused you, Joe. We are always sorry to see similar things happen, as we do our best to provide transparent and enjoyable experience to all our players. That being said, as unfortunate as the situation may be, we must always abide by our Terms of Service, which were clearly violated in this case.

Let's start with the full timeline of relevant events, all of which happened on the 7th of May:

1) 10:55 PM - A deposit is made in combination with our 100SPINSUP promotion, $68.00 bonus is added to player's account.

2) Interim - Player wagers a total of $1,062.14 on Slots (no violations), winning a total of $387.8.

3) 11:42 PM - $450 Withdrawal is requested by the player. As the funds left on the player's account were less than the initial $68 bonus, the withdrawal could not be processed immediately - all bonuses are "sticky" at Casino Extreme, and must be removed before processing a payout.

4) 11:42 PM - Player starts wagering on Blackjack (game not allowed by the Bonus Terms) and wagers a total of $650 before it being noticed by the Pitboss. Further violations were made to the Max Bet per Hand limit of $10, as many bets were made for $15 or $25 per hand.

5) 11:50 PM - Pitboss notices the violation, declines the requested withdrawal, removes the winnings and refunds the initial deposit to the player's account.

I understand that the blackjack wagering being a violation of bonus terms is being contested, based on a Withdrawal being requested before wagers were made. However, please note that requesting a withdrawal does not void the Bonus terms which are in place. One of our General Bonus Terms clarifies this specifically. I have bolded the key details:

7.1.w. Once a bonus is claimed, the terms of that bonus step into effect immediately. These terms remain in full effect until a new Fund Action (Deposit or Bonus) is processed to your account and after the bonus has been cleared from your balance. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after Wagering has been met. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after a Withdrawal is processed. Bonus Terms will remain in effect after Playable Balance drops below $/€ 1. Depositing on top of your existing bonus balance does not void the Bonus Terms. Any violations of the terms while they are in effect, may result in all winnings being voided as per the Terms & Conditions.

As can be seen above, the terms of a claimed Bonus are in full effect until a new deposit or bonus is claimed. The game restrictions and max bet per hand rules must be abided by as long as the last fund action is that bonus. Only once a new deposit or bonus is added to the player's account are the previous terms discarded and replaced by the terms of the new action.

While we would welcome the opportunity to keep restricted games locked after wagering requirements were met, RTG does not offer that functionality just yet. This feature would help a great deal, but for now we must rely keeping our terms as transparent as possible, and on our players following them.

Again, I am honestly sorry for what happened. I hope this information sheds some light on the reasons behind our decision and prevents the same from happening in the future.

We hope this is but a hurdle in your otherwise pleasant experience with Casino Extreme, and hope to have the privilege of being your hosts for years to come.

Please let me know if you need any further information or assistance.

Kind regards,

David

Casino Management

Dear Casino Extreme team.

Thank you for your detailed explanation.

Dear Joe.

I am going to extend the timer by 7 days since Casino.Guru team needs an additional time for further evaluation. I

Dear CasinoExtreme team.

Thank you very much for your cooperation. In Casino.Guru we believe that some industry standards should be set higher. This is one of the reasons why we published our fair gambling codex. Online gambling should be safe for both parties involved and that a state in which nobody is taken advantage of can be achieved.

In this particular case, we believe your system is not fully safe, the player was allowed to play the restricted gambling genre and lost all his winnings just because of it (even the ones he legitimately wagered). The best solution would be to improve your system, so the player with a bonus is not allowed to open a restricted game, or the restricted game would have a 0% contribution to the wagering of the amount.

Please, are you able to find any compromise with the player or is this your final decision?

Dear Jozef,

Thank you very much for your insight and honest opinion.

As I mentioned in my previous post, if we had the option of keeping games restricted after wagering was cleared, we most certainly would. Unfortunately, the RTG system simply doesn't allow us this opportunity at this time. This is why we do our best to make the relevant term clearly visible and transparent, so players know upfront that restricted games cannot be played, even after wagering was met. We will increase our efforts even more on this front, to make sure similar situations never happen again.

With that said, we have discussed the situation further and decided to meet the player half way, by reimbursing half of the winnings which were won on allowed games. Player has been contacted via email in order to finalize the reimbursement.

I hope this settles the situation to the content of all parties, and hope our future talks will be under more pleasant circumstances.

Kind regards,

David

Casino Management

Hello there,

Dear Casino Extreme team.

Thank you very much, we highly appreciate this.

Dear Joe.

We consider casino offer as a positive compromise. Please, could you confirm that the case is resolved now?

I am extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to provide the required information in the given time frame, we will consider the case got resolved.

Dear Joe,

Since we have not heard from you, we consider your issue got resolved. We will now mark it as 'resolved' in our system.

Best regards, Jozef