Stakes Casino - Гравця звинуватили у грі з обмеженим доступом.

Good day,

I deposited €300 at Stakes.com and used a bonus. I am an experienced player and I always read the bonus terms and conditions and save the prohibited games in a separate file. I copied the forbidden games on October 7th, 2022 at 10:00 p.m. CEST and wagered the bonus within 4 hours.

I have successfully completed the KYC.

Now I get the information that I broke the bonus rules because I played a forbidden game. The slot is called Chaos Crew and was definitely not included in the bonus terms and conditions. It was added later, which can be seen very well by the fact that Chaos Crew is not sorted alphabetically, but is at the very end of the banned games. The bonus terms and conditions can of course be changed, but at the time I wagered the bonus, Chaos Crew was not yet among the banned games. Therefore, I have legally won the money and would also like to have my money paid out. If that doesn't happen, this casino should definitely be banned or get an even lower rating. This is cheating and nothing else.

Guten Tag,

ich habe bei Stakes.com 300€ eingezahlt und einen Bonus verwendet. Ich bin ein erfahrener Spieler und lese mir immer die Bonus AGB durch und speichere mir die verbotenen Spiele in einer separaten Datei. Ich habe mir am 07.10.2022 um 22:00 CEST die verbotenen Spiele kopiert und den Bonus innerhalb von 4 Stunden umgesetzt.

Die KYC habe ich erfolgreich durchgeführt.

Jetzt erhalte ich die Information, dass ich gegen die Bonusregeln verstoßen hätte, weil ich ein verbotenes Spiel gespielt hätte. Die Slot heißt Chaos Crew und war definitiv nicht in den Bonus AGB enthalten. Es wurde nachträglich hinzugefügt, was man sehr gut daran erkennt, dass Chaos Crew nicht alphabetisch sortiert ist, sondern ganz am Ende der verbotenen Spiele steht. Die Bonus AGB können natürlich geändert werden, aber zum Zeitpunkt als ich den Bonus umgesetzt habe, war Chaos Crew noch nicht unter den verbotenen Spielen. Daher habe ich das Geld rechtmäßig gewonnen und möchte mein Geld auch ausbezahlt haben. Falls das nicht passiert, sollte dieses Casino definitiv gesperrt oder eine noch schlechtere Bewertung erhalten. Das ist Betrug und nichts anderes.

Dear Tillykke,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem.

I have checked the general bonus terms and conditions, and this is what I found (here):

"19. The slot games listed below are excluded from all bonus promotions. Bets placed on these slots while a bonus is active will not contribute towards wagering fulfilment of that bonus. Any winnings deriving from a bonus played on these games will be forfeited.

5 Lions, 5 Lions Gold, Ankh of Anubis, Betina Bingo, Black Mamba, Big Bad Wolf, Blood Suckers, Castle Builder, Castle Builder 2, Celebration of Wealth, Coins of Egypt, Cowboys Gold, Creature from the Black Lagoon, Dazzle Me, Dead or Alive, Dead or Alive 2, Demolition Squad, Deuces Wild, Devil’s Delight, Diamond Vortex, Doom of Egypt, Eggomatic, Feline Fury, Forsaken Kingdom, Fruit Shop, Fruit Shop Christmas Edition, Gold Volcano, Gonzo’s Quest Megaways, Greek Gods, Guns N’ Roses, Hercules and Pegasus, Holiday Season, Honey Rush, Hook’s Heroes, Hope Diamond, House of Doom, Hugo 2, Immortal Romance, Jackhammer 2, Jimi Hendrix, Jungle Spirit, Koi Princess, Legacy of Dead, Legacy of Egypt, Leprechaun Riches, Lost Relics, Lucky Angler, Max Damage Slot, Money Train 2, Moon Princess, Perfect Gems, Pimped, Planet Fortune, Rainforest Magic, Rainforest Magic Bingo, Reactoonz, Reactoonz 2, Riches of Robin, Rise of Merlin, Rise of Olympus, Robin Hood - Shifting Riches, Royal Masquerade, Safari King, Sahara Nights, Scrooge, Secret of the Stones, Secrets of Atlantis, Simsalabim, Solar Queen, Sweet Bonanza, Temple of Wealth, The Dog House, The True Sheriff, Victorious, Wild O’ Clock, Wild Wild Riches, Zombies, Chaos Crew.

...

Bonus terms updated on 30/09/2020."

However, we think that restricted games for bonus play should be blocked, and this rule enforced at the software level, i.e., the casino's software or website shouldn't let players place bets on the games that are not allowed to be played while completing the bonus wagering.

Could you please advise if it was your first redeemed bonus in this casino?

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve your problem as soon as possible. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Petronela

Hello,

you misunderstood me. The game Chaos Crew was not on the list of banned games when I started playing on October 7th, 2022 at 10:00 p.m. CEST (it took me about 4 hours to convert the amount). Something else was adjusted in the 09/30/2022 update, the Chaos Crew game was added after 10/08/2022. I copied the banned games to a separate file on 10/07/2022. I didn't forget a game either, after the last game "Zombies" there is a dot "." All games are copied in alphabetical order, only Chaos Crew was released on 08/09. or 10.10.2022 added. It is clear here that the bonus rules apply until I have wagered the amount and not when the casino's finance department is reviewing my case!

To your question: yes, that was the first bonus at the casino.

Hallo,

da haben Sie mich falsch verstanden. Das Spiel Chaos Crew war zu dem Zeitpunkt, als ich am 07.10.2022 um 22:00 Uhr CEST begonnen habe zu spielen (habe ca. 4 Stunden gebraucht, um den Betrag umzusetzen) noch nicht auf der Liste der verbotenen Spiele. Bei der Aktualisierung vom 30.09.2022 wurde etwas anderes angepasst, das Spiel Chaos Crew wurde nach dem 08.10.2022 ergänzt. Ich habe die verbotenen Spiele am 07.10.2022 in eine separate Datei kopiert. Dabei habe ich auch kein Spiel vergessen, nach dem letzten Spiel "Zombies" steht ein Punkt "." Alle Spiele sind in alphabetischer Reihenfolge kopiert, nur Chaos Crew wurde am 08./09. oder 10.10.2022 noch ergänzt. Hier ist es doch klar, dass die Bonusregeln gelten, bis ich den Betrag umgesetzt habe und nicht, wenn die Finanzabteilung des Casinos meinen Fall prüft!

Zu Ihrer Frage: Ja, das war der erste Bonus bei dem Casino.

Hello, why doesn't this continue?

I also get no response from stakes.com. I'm not necessarily accusing the casino of cheating, maybe the game just happened to be added to the banned games list after I played. However, it was definitely added later because it is not sorted in alphabetical order.

Hallo, warum geht es hier nicht weiter?

Von stakes.com bekomme ich auch keine Antwort. Ich werfe dem Casino nicht zwangsläufig einen Betrug vor, vielleicht wurde das Spiel nur zufällig nach meinem Spiel auf die Liste der verbotenen Spiele ergänzt. Es wurde jedoch auf jeden Fall nachträglich ergänzt, da es nicht in alphabetischer Reihenfolge einsortiert ist.

Thank you very much, Tillykke, for providing all the necessary information. I did understand your problem.

I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Peter (peter.m@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Hi Tillykke,

I have looked at your case and understand the situation. Let me contact the casino and I will do my best to help. I would like to invite Stakes Casino to the conversation to participate in the resolution of this complaint.

Good day Tillykke,

We hope you are doing well today.

While we thank you for being honest in expressing your opinion on Stakes through Casino Guru, we kindly ask you to please email us at vip@stakes.com with your concerns and requests, and rest assured our team will be looking into your case.

We would appreciate it if you could send us the email while making sure to include the subject ‘’Guru Review’’ so our relevant department will check your case as soon as possible.

We will be looking forward to your reply Tillykke, please do not hesitate to reach us on chat 24/7x for any further questions or requests you might have and we will be more than happy to assist.

Kindest Regards,

Vanessa

Stakes Team

I have already written to your support 4 times and have not received any answer. I will now escalate the case to vip@stakes.com hoping to finally get my rightfully won money.

Edit 19:43 CEST: The mail is out. However, I would like to make it clear that I have not expressed an opinion, but have filed a complaint.

Ich habe Ihren Support bereits 4 mal angeschrieben und erhalte keinerlei Antwort. Ich werde den Fall jetzt an vip@stakes.com weiterleiten und hoffe, endlich mein rechtmäßig gewonnenes Geld zu bekommen.

Edit 19:43 CEST: Die Mail ist raus. Ich möchte hier aber noch klarstellen, dass ich keine Meinung geäußert, sondern eine Beschwere eingereicht habe.

Hello Tillykke,

Apologies for what happened however, it is stated that you played a restricted game and thus breached the Bonus Terms.

Thoroughly checking the case, we were able to confirm that you did play the Chaos Crew (restricted game)game while the bonus 9964472 was active. Additionally, we could notice that according to the Portal, on the Bonus Terms page, the last update of the terms was on 09/30/2022, which was evident before you used the bonus (please see the attached photo for your reference).

Best Regards,

Vanessa

Stakes Team

Hello Stakes Casino,

It would be great if you read my complaint in full. I don't deny that I've played Chaos Crew. Again: I am an experienced player and always copy all forbidden games into a separate file before starting. On the screenshot I opened this file, here you can see the last modification date on 07.10.2022 at 22:11 CEST. All games from the bonus conditions on 10/07/2022 are listed there. The last game is called "Zombies" with a "." closed. So I didn't forget a game when copying. Chaos Crew was added later.

Hallo Stakes Casino,

es wäre toll, wenn ihr meine Beschwerde auch komplett lesen würdet. Ich streite nicht ab, dass ich Chaos Crew gespielt habe. Nochmal: ich bin ein erfahrener Spieler und kopiere mir immer vor Beginn alle verbotenen Spiele in eine separate Datei. Auf dem Screenshot habe ich diese Datei geöffnet, hier erkennt man das letzte Änderungsdatum am 07.10.2022 um 22:11 CEST. Dort ist sind alle Spiele aus den Bonusbedingungen am 07.10.2022 aufgeführt. Das letzte Spiel heißt hier "Zombies" und ist mit einem "." abgeschlossen. Ich habe also beim Kopieren kein Spiel vergessen. Chaos Crew wurde nachträglich ergänzt.

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies.

Dear Stakes Casino,

If the player created the file on 07.10.2022 at 22:11 CEST, is there a possibility that the conditions were changed after that? Secondly, even if they weren't, our position on restricted games for bonus play is as follows: If a casino wants to restrict players from playing certain games, it should be enforced on a software level. What player will memorize 100 games that they are not allowed to play with a bonus? This system isn't very transparent and looks more like a trap for casual players. Considering this, we are convinced that the player should get paid in full.

We would like to ask the Casino to reply to this complaint. We are extending the timer by 7 days. If the casino fails to respond in the set time frame, we will close the complaint as ‘unresolved’ which may negatively affect its rating.

I can probably assume that I will not receive my legally won money. Please warn all players about this fraudulent casino so that players only deposit at casinos that also pay out big winnings.

Nevertheless, thank you very much for your effort @Casino Guru

Ich kann vermutlich davon ausgehen, dass ich mein legal gewonnenes Geld nicht erhalten werde. Bitte warnen Sie alle Spieler vor diesem betrügerischen Casino, damit die Spieler nur bei Casinos einzahlen, die auch große Gewinne auszahlen.

Dennoch vielen Dank für eure Mühe @Casino Guru

Hi Tillykke,

I gave the casino a nudge on Skype. I was promised a reply on Friday, so let's wait until tomorrow, and then we will close the complaint.

Hi Tillykke,

Unfortunately, I couldn't convince the casino to change its position. As stated above, we can't accept its decision to confiscate your winnings based on restricted gameplay without any sort of warning. The complaint will be closed as unresolved. I understand this isn't a satisfactory solution to your issue. However, the decrease in rating caused by unresolved complaints could help to change the casino's approach. If the casino decides to reconsider, we will reopen the complaint and you will be notified by email. In the meantime, I recommend you contact the Curacao Gaming Authority (certria@gaminglicences.com) and submit a complaint to them. I'm not sure if they will be willing to help with this type of case, but it's worth a try. Let me know how they responded (peter.m@casino.guru). I wish I could be of more help.

Best regards

Peter