Paradise 8 Casino - Рахунок гравця було заморожено, а виграш конфісковано через нібито публічні скарги.

Paradise 8 recently froze off the last $31,608 of my balance. They cited rule 11.10 which allows for "termination of the player's casino account, confiscation of winnings and existing balances...Should at any time the casino discover an active or past complaint/dispute/criticism on a public forum or blog or any other type of website." That is the extent of the relevant content of that rule. They also cited "negativity" and "slander", although they won't specify what that slander is. I have shown them extensive documentation and have not slandered them.

Dear mcd6802,

Thank you very much for submitting this complaint. I'm sorry to hear about your problem. I have checked the Terms and Conditions of Paradise 8 Casino, and this is what I found under rule 11.10:

11.10. The following actions by the player will be considered a violation of the terms and conditions of the Casino, but not limited to this list. Consequences may include termination of the player's casino account, confiscation of winnings and existing balances, denial of services, promotions and any other offers by the Casino.

• More than one account at Paradise8 Online Casino and/or more than one account per household and/or more than one account per device, and/or more than one account from the same IP address, and/ or more than one account on an affiliated sister casino under the same management as Paradise8 Online Casino.
• Should at any time, the casino discovers a linkage or connection to a fraudulent, suspended or refunded or previously closed account on any brand within the Rival network or any other online casino.
• Should at any time the casino discover an active or past complaint/dispute/criticism on a public forum or blog or any other type of website.
• Should at any time the player abuse, harass or speak inappropriately to any of the Casino staff, including verbal and written threats or intimidation.
• A mismatch on the Player's Casino account not matching the name on the credit card(s) or payment method(s) used to make deposits on the account.
• Incorrect or false registration information.
• The player is playing from a territory or region not fully authorized to allow online gaming.
• The player is not of the required legal age according to the Casino Terms and Conditions.
• If the Player has allowed or permitted (intentionally or unintentionally) another player to play on their own Casino account.
• If an individual has not played in the Casino purely as an entertainment and has only participated in a professional capacity or in association with another player from another club or group or part thereof.
• If the Player has been found deliberately making a 'chargeback' or 'dispute' of funds deposited from their credit card, or any other payment method, into their Casino account; or have been found to have made a 'chargeback' or threatened to do so in any other capacity on a sister casino on the Rival platform or any other online casino or website. This includes verbal and written threats to dispute, chargeback or stop transactions.
• If the Player is discovered to be cheating or has been found making irregular betting patterns, or suspicious or irregular betting strategies and or the Player has instigated a system (i.e. Martingale, machines, computers, software or any other form of automation) to proliferate a cheat designed for the Casino to lose revenue due to this operation.
• The player is linked to any employee, ex-employee, company, third party or agency connected to the Casino currently or in the past.
• The player has made any attempts to 'hack' the Casino software or website, or made any changes to it in any way not specifically allowed by the Casino.

Has the casino specified that your balance was forfeited due to a past complaint/dispute/criticism, or have you come to this conclusion on your own? Please forward me the email you received from the casino regarding the cancelation of your winnings. My email address is veronika.l@casino.guru. Alternatively, you may post screenshots here.

I hope we will be able to help you resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards

Veronika

Please be aware: At Casino.Guru, we never ask for your casino account password. While we may request information, we never seek access to your account. Please refrain from sharing your password with any third party. We primarily communicate through official threads, occasionally via email for requested supporting evidence or relevant communication.

You found the rule I was referring to although I don't think you will find anything relevant in that rule that is outside of what I mentioned. I had accounts at both Paradise 8 and This Is Vegas (same company) so past communications may refer to Paradise 8 as TIV (for This Is Vegas). Before the confiscation, I was given the following warning on a posting at Casino Freak:

"Our patience has worn thin, and we now request that the customer promptly remove absolutely all posts containing unfounded suspicions and "hunches" that are tarnishing our reputation with baseless claims. Failure to comply will result in the escalation of this matter in accordance with Clause 11.10 of our terms and conditions, addressing the misuse of accounts. Potential consequences include account termination, winnings confiscation, and denial of services. We appreciate your attention to this matter. Best regards

I have pasted below the final email communication:

Me: 3/26/24

When I go to your site, it says that my account has been locked and that I should contact support. I have also not received a payment in the last month. Thought I should get your official comments.

Paradise 8/This Is Vegas 3/26/24

Hi Max,

How are you?

Honestly, we debated whether to respond to your email at all, but we decided to do so, just out of courtesy.

You're spreading negativity on forums, lying, and violating the guidelines to which you committed when creating your account here.

And the cherry on top? Despite everything we've written above, you continue to do it time and again, even after one of the main forums closed your complaint and politely told you that despite all your desperate attmepts, you have no case.

So, while we've acted according to the T&C and paid you according to the T&C, despite your actions described above, we also have limits. 

After understanding and realizing that you continue with insults and slander, your account has been closed, and your funds have been frozen. (You can read the section stating the procedure we followed in the last forum where you slandered us... everything is written there in response to your slandering.)

And finally, one last thing.

For any future post of yours, in any forum whatsoever, you will respond in a fitting manner.

Good luck,

VIP Team

You can find plenty of context in my posting at www.gamblingforums.com/threads/issues-at-thisisvegas-paradise-8-80-150-revoked.26683/  I also made a recent posting at CasinoMeister though some of it got snipped. Casinomeister seemed to be rather blunt that I was scammed which is my opinion as well. I find it funny they are claiming I am spreading lies. My positions are very well documented.

Thank you very much, mcd6802, for providing all the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Michal (michal.k@casino.guru) who will be at your assistance. I wish you the best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Hello mcd6802,

This is Michal again. I've taken over your complaint and have reviewed your case. While it seems likely, I'd like to confirm if this recent issue is still connected to the previous complaint you filed with us regarding This Is Vegas Casino?

There is a connection. Still, this complaint addresses an issue that happened after I issued previous complaints. My third complaint against ThisIsVegas/Paradise8 (TIV) was deleted without notice. That complaint (my "previous" one) was issued because TIV was threatening to revoke my remaining $31,608 under rule 11.10 using your site as a key justification. I have issued this 4th complaint because they have acted on that threat.

So that we are on the same page, I would appreciate it if you would briefly confirm what you have reviewed. I know that you were the moderator on my first complaint, so you don't need to reestablish that. What was presented in that first complaint is not sufficient information for the current complaint.

Dear mcd6802,

I had a look at the thread where you did receive this response from the TIV/Paradise 8 team,

Hello Everyone,

We've had extensive discussions about whether to continue providing a platform to an individual who seemingly makes a "respectable" income through bullying, manipulation and now, evidently, outright lies.

The "customer" in question has long been endeavoring to construct a personal narrative, in denial of the simple fact that he neglected to read the Terms & Conditions of the site where he chose to create an account. This is the same site that has paid him a significant amount of money, adhering to the Terms & Conditions which we respect and will continue to uphold.

In his attempts to skew reality, it has become apparent that this individual has a history across various forums. His modus operandi: aggressively confronting customer service representatives, attempting to fabricate a false narrative, and discrediting others in these forums, all in hopes of coercing financial concessions and silencing.

Unfortunately, this person has targeted the wrong group. Each post made in any forum will be met with a firm response, and should this behavior persist, our reactions will escalate in severity, to the point where he may no longer be welcome anywhere (which we recommend to all).

We believe in substantiating our claims. Attached for our esteemed community is the link to the customer's previous complaint (about a month ago). Despite his persistent efforts over many days, the case was closed due to a lack of sufficient evidence.

Since links are not allowed, we highly recommend visiting Casino Guru's website (where the customer's complaint was rejected) to see the customer's claims and sheer lies being debunked right after the other. We, unlike the customer, provide proof.

Happy reading, and thank you for the opportunity to share this warning about the individual in question.

Best regards,

The TIV Team

While I understand your commitment to exploring all possible avenues to support your position, I'm not surprised that the casino team chose to stop your payments. I can acknowledge that this may not be the ideal approach, but given the circumstances leading to this decision, I can empathize with the casino team after your various accusations which we could not fully prove triggered them not to continue to pay the remaining funds.

You've posted your complaint on various websites and forums. Could you please specify which reputable websites or forums have sided with you on this matter? Please share the link I would like to see their reasoning and decision.

Based on your previous two comments, I feel I should put out into the open what my fears are at the moment. In your first comment, you ask if the recent issue is "still" connected to the previous complaint against TIV. It is not 100% clear to me what your definition of my "previous" complaint was, but I am going to make an educated guess that you were referring to my first complaint (the one you moderated). Reading the word "still", my original gut reaction was that you were intonating that I had not properly moved onward and that you might be looking for a pretext to make a quick exit to this complaint by conflating it with my first. Perhaps you might understand this fear given the ruling on my second complaint. In that second complaint, I detailed extensive evidence that TIV was fabricating tournament scores. The complaint was thrown away with the objectively false assertion that it "regarded the same issue" as my first complaint. The overlap was minimal.

In your second comment, let's face it, you cast some pretty strong aspersions. I had asked what you read. You respond with a long quote by TIV. To me, it looks like that quote approximates your own viewpoint. You also use wording like "given the circumstances leading to this decision" and "can empathize with the casino team after your various accusations which we could not fully prove". How am I supposed to see this and not wonder about what your conception of what the raw information is? How am I supposed to see this and not wonder if there is some lingering animosity? From your response, you have implied that you have read my Gambling Forums post. Did you read the whole thing? All the footnotes, the documentation, and the responses? I have responded to everything TIV has said. I was also highly critical of the work you did personally. You have not recused yourself so you are clearly implying you can remain objective. A person in my position would be worried. I still have the last email you sent me.

In general, I would appreciate knowing what page you are on down to specifics. Can you possibly believe those tournament scores weren't fabricated? Your implication is yes. Fine. However, I still have no idea what your reasoning is. Of all the thousands of people who have at least taken a glance at the situation, you are the only one to interject that TIV was merely following their T&C. After all, that's all they are doing here. Rule 11.10 only requires an "active or past complaint / dispute / criticism on a public forum or blog or any other type of website". What else could there be to the story?

As for your request for reputable websites or forums that have sided with me on this matter, I have only made one formal complaint outside of Casino Guru. I presented my argument to Ask Gamblers that TIV had rigged their tournament scores. I focused on this because I didn't want to duplicate complaints. They responded: 

"After careful consideration of your case, AskGamblers Complaint Team reached to the conclusion that you must forward the dispute in front of the relevant Gambling Authority directly as they are the only competent authority to conduct proper investigation and reach to justified decision whether there was any breach of the regulatory requirements or not."

I have provided a screenshot because the complaint can only be viewed via personal login. I do not use their conclusion to support my case. I am just documenting the facts.

As for my postings, outside of CasinoMeister, the websites themselves typically said nothing and made no edits. Casinomeister's comments you can see for yourself. If you want to see the parts they edited out, I have that available. Out of disclosure, below are links to everywhere I have posted.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/serious-issues-at-casino-111-758-of-my-balance-revoked.102103/

https://www.gamblingforums.com/threads/issues-at-thisisvegas-paradise-8-80-150-revoked.26683/

https://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/casino/3734347-why-im-suspicious-casino-has-repeatedly-fabricated-tournament-scores.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/gambling/comments/1ac1fvl/why_i_am_suspicious_this_casino_has_repeatedly/

https://www.casinofreak.com/casino-reviews/this-is-vegas-review (user mcd6802)

Given that I have only used their site when I have had an issue with a casino, I will state preemptively that Casinomeister's head of complaints has restricted my use of their site claiming I try to bully casinos around. If you want to use this point against me you will do so, but it would be easy to provides lots of counterpoint to that argument if you actually care about what's true. I consider the reality to be an inversion of Casinomeister's assessment. I'm a high-volume gambler who has compiled a number of large wins over the last 20 years using legitimate wagering strategies some sportsbooks and casinos don't like. If you follow the best opportunities, it lands you at a large volume of different places. Not all of them are going to be A+ companies. Collectively, it forces you to stand your ground. It also, on a side note, forces you to read the T&C. Who knows though, maybe TIV is right, and I just didn't read their T&C or was trying to trick their chat operators. Those would be great strategies. 

If you really want to get more from Casinomeister's point of view, I suggest you encourage TIV to respond to my post there. Why wouldn't they? Casinomeister already dislikes me and TIV has such a sterling reputation. Let's see what Casinomeister would say in response.

Bottom line, try to put yourself in my position. I would obviously think that the information that has become available since the end of my first complaint should feed back into your perspective on that first complaint. However, if I push that angle it would look like I am really trying to relitigate an old issue. That is the last I will speak on that. I am here to focus on the new complaint, but there is unavoidable intersection.

Finally, if you are not going to recuse yourself, at least admit the possibility that all the information that has become available since you terminated my first complaint could prevent you from maintaining face. Furthermore, any decision in my favor in this case could also prevent you from maintaining face. You have personally chastised me for playing at TIV to begin with. I will openly admit that I got scammed. Could you admit the same about yourself? Your stated empathy is with TIV. They only got $31,608++ compensation for a few posts with modest interest when they already had a dismal reputation. I am sincerely trying to understand it.

Dear mcd6802,

First of all, you once again responded with quite extensive text where you "touched" multiple points. After reading it through and "removing" all your personal feelings and assumptions the bottom line is (As far as I understand it correctly) you have continued to complain about your This Is Vegas case on various forums and webpages and once the casino team has enough and warned you that if you do not stop "slander" and "falsely accuse them" they will go ahead and engage using clause 11.10 as they have clearly informed you about.

Our patience has worn thin, and we now request that the customer promptly remove absolutely all posts containing unfounded suspicions and "hunches" that are tarnishing our reputation with baseless claims. Failure to comply will result in the escalation of this matter in accordance with Clause 11.10 of our terms and conditions, addressing the misuse of accounts. Potential consequences include account termination, winnings confiscation, and denial of services.

We appreciate your attention to this matter.

Best regards

And now you have submitted yet another complaint that the casino team has frozen off the $31,608 and is not processing further withdrawals? I wonder, why are you surprised?

I have checked ( I confess I have not read all the comments and posts as there are many) the forums and webpages you have shared the links and basically no one has sided with you, which makes me wonder again where the issue might really be.

I will not comment on the last part of your previous post as I don't think it is worth it. You will still see only your point no matter the explanation.

One thing I will point out is that you have freely come to our complaint forum and you have submitted your complaint.

We at Casino Guru are trying to help players by resolving issues between the players and the casinos if possible, and we are offering this service free of charge. Casino.guru is an independent source of information about online casinos, online casino games and acts as a mediator in resolving players’ disputes that is not controlled by any gambling operator.

So although we were trying to help you, our decision to reject your complaint was after gathering the information from both sides and we have provided sufficient explanation for our decision

For anyone interested to know more here is the first complaint: https://casinoguru-en.com/this-is-vegas-casino-player-faces-lengthy-delay-in

With all this being said, I can acknowledge that the casino's current action may not be the ideal approach, and our advice to casinos is to use rules like this in really last resort options, but given the circumstances leading to this decision, I can empathize with the casino team after your various accusations triggered them not to continue to pay the remaining funds.

And yes, I will use the Casinomeister's head of complaints point as they have nicely summed up what appears to be your modus operandi:

Yes, well, that appears to be a pattern with your posts: you say something that isn't true -- usually claiming to be the victim of one thing or another -- and when you are corrected with supporting evidence you say "I was not trying to imply blaa blaa blaa".

I suggest that if you avoided the hard-done-by approach and sailed a little closer to the truth in the first place such "misunderstandings" would be a lot less frequent. Also, your time here would be a lot less fraught with the tensions that inevitably result from us having to constantly monitor your posts to counter your false claims and self-serving distortions of the facts.

When we declined your previous case involving This is Vegas Casino, the casino possessed a valid Curaçao/Antillephone license. However, it appears that this situation has changed. According to our investigation, neither This is Vegas nor Paradise 8 Casino currently hold a valid license. Consequently, there is no gaming authority to which you can escalate your complaint further. However, even if you did, it's important to note that we cannot dispute the fact that the casino was merely adhering to its established rules.

Unfortunately, after gathering all the necessary information we are forced to reject this complaint. Sorry we were not able to help you with this one, but please, do not hesitate to contact us in the future, if you run into any other (not related to this or your previous case) issues with this or any other casino and we will try our best to help.

Best Regards,

Michal

Casino Guru