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Hi there,

I had a very good hit in the game Dead or Alive.

I wanted to withdraw at the casino and then the following message came a few days later:

Hi there,

Our casino department has informed us that with the last bonus [Santa's Special 100% up to € 300] from December 4th, 2021 you have placed bets in Dead or Alive and Guns'n Roses, among others.

This is a violation of our bonus terms and conditions, and we have put all game rounds together as a file in the appendix.

We have returned the original € 50.00 from the deposit to your user account for reasons of goodwill and had to cancel the withdrawal order and adjust the amount. This sum is real money and can be paid out directly.

Please note the prohibited games when using a bonus.

With festive greetings

Sam

Elite24Bet

The terms and conditions state the following:

9. Wagers on all jackpot games, table games, video poker and the following games (desktop and mobile versions) are not valid for the purposes of this offer: Koi Princess, Blood Suckers, Lucky Angler, The Wish Master, Devil's Delight, Dead or Alive, Simsalabim, Victorious, Forsaken Kingdom, Castle Builder, Castle Builder II, Ladies Nite, Stardust, Peek-A-Boo, Tower Quest, EggOMatic, Zombie Hoard, Eye of the Kraken, Jack Hammer 2, Jackpot 6000, Pearls of India , Sea Hunter, Wild Turkey, Dead or Alive 2, Jurassic Park, Jack Hammer, Sails of Gold, Secrets of Atlantis, Jimi Hendrix, Guns'n Roses, Le Kaffee Bar, Magic of Sahara, Solar Queen, Solar Temple, Golden Beauty , Bronco Spirit.

The passage: "do not apply to" just means that these games do not contribute to sales?

In addition, are blocked games in every casino not available with bonus credits?

What options do I have now?

Regards

Hallo,

Ich hatte einen sehr guten treffer in dem Spiel Dead or Alive. 

Ich wollte bei dem Casino auszahlen und dann kam folgende Nachricht ein paar Tage später:

Hallo,

unsere Casinoabteilung hat uns mitgeteilt, dass Sie mit dem letzten Bonus [Santa's Special 100% bis zu 300€] vom 04.12.2021 Einsätze getätigt haben u.a. in Dead or Alive sowie Guns'n Roses.

Dieses ist ein Verstoß gegen unsere Bonusbedingungen, und wir haben alle Spielrunden als Datei im Anhang zusammengestellt.

Wir haben die ursprünglichen 50,00€ aus der Einzahlung auf Ihr Benutzerkonto aus Kulanzgründen zurückgebucht und mussten den Auszahlungsauftrag abbrechen sowie den Betrag anpassen. Diese Summe ist Echtgeld und kann direkt ausgezahlt werden.

Bitte beachten Sie die nicht erlaubten Spiele bei der Verwendung eines Bonus.

Mit festlichen Grüßen

Sam

Elite24Bet

In den AGB steht folgendes:

9. Einsätze auf alle Jackpot-Spiele, Tischspiele, Video-Poker und die folgenden Spiele (Desktop- und Mobilversionen) gelten nicht für die Zwecke dieses Angebots: Koi Princess, Blood Suckers, Lucky Angler, The Wish Master, Devil's Delight, Dead or Alive, Simsalabim, Victorious, Forsaken Kingdom, Castle Builder, Castle Builder II, Ladies Nite, Stardust, Peek-A-Boo, Tower Quest, EggOMatic, Zombie Hoard, Eye of the Kraken, Jack Hammer 2, Jackpot 6000, Pearls of India, Sea Hunter, Wild Turkey, Dead or Alive 2, Jurassic Park, Jack Hammer, Sails of Gold, Secrets of Atlantis, Jimi Hendrix, Guns'n Roses, Le Kaffee Bar, Magic of Sahara, Solar Queen, Solar Temple, Golden Beauty, Bronco Spirit.

Die passage:"gelten nicht für" bedeutet doch nur, dass diese Spiele nicht dem Umsatz beitragen?. 

Außerdem sind gesperrte spiele in jedem Casino nicht abrufbar mit Bonus Guthaben? 

Welche möglichkeiten habe ich nun?

Grüße

Dear Jonas,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem. We believe that restricted games should be blocked, and this rule enforced at the software level, i.e., that the casino's software or website shouldn't let players place bets on the games that are not allowed to be played.

Could you please forward any relevant communication to petronela.k@casino.guru?

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve your problem as soon as possible. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best regards,

Petronela

Hello. The emails were forwarded.

Thanks very much.

Hallo. Die emails wurden weitergeleitet.

Vielen Dank.

I just noticed that this complaint was incorrectly listed. It is the casino elite24bet.com. And not giochielite.

Mir ist gerade aufgefallen, dass diese Beschwerde falsch gelistet ist. Es handelt sich um das Casino elite24bet.com. Und nicht giochielite.

Thank you very much, Jonas, for providing all the necessary information. I have switched the complaint to the correct casino.

I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Viliam who will be at your assistance. I wish you best of luck and hope to see your problem being resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.

Hello Jonas,

I looked at your complaint and will do my best to help you. I would like to invite Elite24Bet Casino into this conversation. Casino, can you please specify why did you confiscate the player’s winnings?

To Whom It May Concern,

We have checked the customer's account and we have to inform you, that this customer has a still unverified account and did no register the account via an Casino Guru tracking code. However we will react to this case with all possible transparency and also understand the frustration after a big win [which violated the Bonus Terms and Conditions] have been confiscated.

In a nutshell, the customer has violated against our Bonus Terms and Conditions by playing Dead or Alive and Guns'n Roses with an active Deposit Bonus.

Based on our Casino Bonus Terms and Conditions within section "Deposit bonus" it says:

"9. Wagers made on all Jackpot Games, Table Games, Video Poker and the following games (desktop and mobile versions) do not apply for the purposes of this offer: Koi Princess, Blood Suckers, Lucky Angler, The Wish Master, Devil's Delight, Dead or Alive, Simsalabim, Victorious, Forsaken Kingdom, Castle Builder, Castle Builder II, Ladies Nite, Stardust, Peek-A-Boo, Tower Quest, EggOMatic, Zombie Hoard, Eye of the Kraken, Jack Hammer 2, Jackpot 6000, Pearls of India, Sea Hunter, Wild Turkey, Dead or Alive 2, Jurassic Park, Jack Hammer, Sails of Gold, Secrets of Atlantis, Jimi Hendrix, Guns'n Roses, Le Kaffee Bar, Magic of Sahara, Solar Queen, Solar Temple, Golden Beauty, Bronco Spirit."

The customer played a total of 235 rounds within Dead or Alive and 64 rounds in Guns'n Roses. We have to mention that Dead or Alive had a win of 1895.00 EUR while playing with the bonus funds. The slot Dead or Alive is excluded for playing with bonuses at many operators including us.

We provided a full list [.csv file] of the played rounds including the violation of our bonus terms and conditions and informed him within the email.

The Payments department returned the amount of 50.00 Euro [which was the deposit amount while claiming the bonus] back to the customer's account which the customer is able to withdraw after the account is fully verified.

We understand the frustration at customer's side but we cannot make an exception regarding the described violation.

Kind Regards

Elite24Bet Casino department

Dear Elite24Bet Casino,

thank you for the explanation but we believe that your software shouldn't let the player play the restricted games. This is very user-unfriendly. In our opinion, you should credit back the player's winnings and pay him after verification. Let us know what'll you do because if you decide not to pay I'll be forced to close this complaint as unresolved. Please note that this situation will have a negative effect on your rating.

Viliam Casino.Guru

Dear Casino Guru Team,

Thank you for your reply, however we are surprised about your reaction as the customer clearly violated our Bonus Terms and Conditions while playing with a bonus.

Each customer who wants to participate in a particular offer is obliged to check said offers' Terms and Conditions, including excluded games. This applies to all operators, not only us.

The customer played the Dead or Alive slot which is being excluded from bonus wagering at most operators, including us.

The biggest win within that bonus was also from Dead or Alive, and we do not see how we can book the balance back to the account because of violating our Bonus Terms and Conditions.

We understand the frustration on the customer's side, that's why we have returned the initial deposit (50€) back to the customer's account as a goodwill gesture.

We are going to address your point, that the software shouldn't allow to play the excluded games with a bonus, however it is not possible in our current system setup, so it will require an additional development on our side.

We do not see your latest point as fair, that an unsolved case might effect our rating score, as you would directly substract point for us sticking to the conditions we have set.

Elite24Bet Casino department

Dear Casino,

do I understand it right that you are not willing to credit back the player's winnings?

Dear Viliam,

We amended the amount according to our bonus terms and conditions and this is why the result cannot be described as "winnings".

The customer violated the bonus terms and conditions by using the bonus funds on excluded games [Dead or Alive and Guns'n Roses] and each customer has to inform itself about the conditions before any game play.

There is no possibility for any goodwill from our side in this case, as 235 rounds in Dead or Alive were played.

Furthermore we would like to mention, that the customer did still not send in the required documents for a verification.

Kind Regards

Casino department

They write the following:

"The customer has violated the bonus terms and conditions by using the bonus balance for excluded games [Dead or Alive and Guns'n Roses] and every customer must find out about the terms and conditions before each game."

The information before the game has taken place. Because in their terms and conditions it says:

"9. Wagers on all jackpot games, table games, video poker and the following games (desktop and mobile versions) are not valid for the purposes of this offer:"

There you write: "do not apply"

The statement: "do not apply " means something different than: for excluded games.

I interpreted the statement "do not apply" in such a way that their use just does not contribute to the turnover of the bonus. This is common practice in many other casinos where these slots are not blocked.

In casinos in which the use of certain games is prohibited, these games are blocked. This makes it clear to the player what is allowed and what is not. This is not possible for you.

That it is technically not possible to ban these players at the moment is a lame excuse.

In my opinion you have deliberately written the terms and conditions in a misleading way in order to lure players into exactly this trap so that they can forego a payout in case of doubt.

This is a dubious practice on your part.

Their terms and conditions are not clearly defined and are misleading.

Sie schreiben folgendes:

"Der Kunde hat gegen die Bonusbedingungen verstoßen, indem er das Bonusguthaben für ausgeschlossene Spiele verwendet hat [Dead or Alive und Guns'n Roses] und jeder Kunde muss sich vor jedem Spiel über die Bedingungen informieren."

Die Informierung vor dem Spielen hat stattgefunden. Denn in ihren AGB steht folgendes:

"9. Einsätze auf alle Jackpot-Spiele, Tischspiele, Video-Poker und die folgenden Spiele (Desktop- und Mobilversionen) gelten nicht für die Zwecke dieses Angebots:"

Dort schreiben Sie: "gelten nicht"

Die Aussage: "gelten nicht" bedeutet etwas anderes als: für ausgeschlossene Spiele.

Die Aussage "gelten nicht" habe ich so interpretiert, dass deren Einsatz nur nicht zu dem Umsatz des Bonus beiträgt. Dies ist gängige Praxis in vielen weiteren Casinos, wo diese Slots eben nicht gesperrt sind.

In Casinos in denen der Einsatz in bestimmten Spielen verboten ist, sind diese Spiele gesperrt. So ist es für den Spieler ersichtlich, was erlaubt ist und was nicht. Bei Ihnen ist dies nicht möglich.

Das dass Sperren dieser Spieler Technisch derzeit nicht möglich sei, ist eine faule Ausrede.

Meiner Meinung nach haben Sie die AGB absichtlich irreführend geschrieben um Spieler genau in diese falle zu locken, um im Zweifel auf eine Auszahlung verzichten zu können.

Dies ist eine unseriöse Praxis ihrerseits.

Ihre AGB sind nicht klar definiert und irreführend.

Verification documents have now been submitted.

Dokumente zur Verifizierung sind nun eingereicht.

We understand the casino’s position that the player breached T&Cs. We also understand that – mainly because of bonus hunters – some games are restricted during bonus play.

The problem here is that if the restriction is not enforced by software, it will often cause recreational players, who are not aware of the game being restricted, to get their winnings voided.

Although the casino may be right from the legal perspective, we believe that the very best casinos are willing to take measures to create a safe environment for players, so that their winnings will not get voided because of an honest mistake. This is the reason why we are giving a minor penalty to casinos in situation like this. It represents the fact that these casinos may be still good, but there are other casinos that are safer for players.

We understand that it may be hard to enforce restricted games for bonus play by software, but it does not mean that giving the responsibility to the player is the best solution. We believe that the fair approach to this is to set the games that casino wants to restrict but cannot enforce it by software to have 0% wagering contribution. Therefore, players’ winnings will not be voided and at the same time it is not possible (or at least much harder) to abuse the game by bonus hunters.

In this case, we therefore suggest recalculating the wagering requirements for the player in the way that the prohibited game won't contribute to them, and letting the player withdraw after wagering the bonus properly.

For now, I'm forced to close it as unresolved. In case that you'll decide to pay the player's winnings, we can reopen this complaint.