Chipstars Casino - Гравець вимагає неповернених депозитів через непідтверджений рахунок.

I have left my complaint seven months as I have been trying to resolve the matter directly with the casino. I am due a refund of ALL deposits totalling EUR26,300 but they have only returned EUR8,000 to me. I had an account operational with them for less than 2months. In this time my account was never verified and I was allowed to deposit and lose EU26,300 all from the UK. I was able to register from the UK with all of my correct details and was never once used a VPN so my IP address was always the UK. I subsequently found out from a separate complaint made about chipstars on this website that they didn't accept customers from the UK. In the case of the complaint the customer had won over EUR13,000 but chipstars voided all of their transactions and refunded all of their deposits. Based on this fact I got in contact with them to ask for all of my transactions to be voided and all of my deposits to be returned but they refused. It is very apparent that chipstars are using fraudulent behaviour to their advantage in both circumstances. If they allow a customers from the UK to register and they win then they void all of their transactions and refund their total deposits. However if a customer registers from the UK and loses they do not void the transactions and keep all of the deposits. This is a win/win situation for chipstars and is nothing but fraud. A customer from the UK can NEVER win with them!!Chipstars lied and said I must have used a VPN which is rubbish. I also note that in the past couple of months they have started accepting registered customers from the UK again. By doing so they are committing a UK criminal offence as they do not have the necessary and legal UK Gambling License. I asked them online where they were based and they told me London which is another complete lie. My VIP manager at the time ,Bojan is fully aware of the situation but still refuses to refund the outstanding EUR18,300 and tell lies to try and cover of what they have been doing.

Hello dmr1,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint and I'm really sorry to hear about your issue with Chipstars Casino. Please allow me to ask you a few more question before we would move forward.

Could you please advise if your account there is closed and if yes, since when exactly? How much was your balance when you last played in the casino? When was the last time you received a payment from the casino? Is there any way to show us the amount of total deposits into the casino?

Looking forward to your answer.

Regards,

Nick

Hi Nick

I have just forwarded a lot of correspondence to/from Chipstars to your email address as there was far too much to post here.

If you require anything else let me know.

Regards

Hello dmr1 and thank you for the e-mails provided. Can you please advise how much was your exact balance when your account got blocked and the casino started to send you money?

Hi Nick

All of the information requested has already been included in the numerous emails I have already sent you.

Hello dmr1,

It took a little time to go through all the e-mails provided as they contained many information. Would you please still specify the exact amount on your account when it got closed?

I would also like to ask a few more question to clarify some concerns - why did you even register there if you did see that they do not have a UKG license? Did you ever contact their current license regulator in order to pursue your case?

Please note that based on our policy, unless the casino does not restrict a country by their terms and conditions (UK in your case) it is entirely up to the player to follow the laws in their own country and the casino is not responsible for any loss. On the other hand if their break the rules of their current license, you should contact the licensing authorities as they should be the one dealing with the casino.

Dear Nick,

Thank you for your reply although I'm slightly perplexed as to why you are ignoring the main point of my complaint which is a clear breach of Chipstars own Terms and Conditions.

Their T&C's state the following when my account was operational

11. What will happen to my account if it isn't verified?

Until you get verified you can use play money to check out the platform and gameplay. After you get registered you can make a deposit and receive deposit bonus and get included in the VIP program.

As previously stated my account was NEVER verified but I was able to deposit over EUR27,000 in less than a month. I can assure it definitely wasn't fictitious play money I was using on an unverified account. I did however get included into their VIP program very quickly.

As I have also already informed you the exact balance on my account was zero when my account got blocked and the casino sent me back EUR8,000 out of my net deposits of EUR26,300. This means that they are still withholding EUR18,300 of my deposits that they accepted on an unverified account and an account from the UK that they also say they couldn't/didn't accept.

Obviously had I won they would have rightly voided ALL transactions and returned ALL my deposits, which is something they did on a previous complaint from forum member kod1 but only because he won!!. However as I lost they decided to keep all bar EUR8.000 of the EUR26,300 deposits . A win/win situation for them and nothing but breach of T&C's and fraud.

It would appear that as part of the complaints process you have not even contacted Chipstars to ask them why they have breached their own T&C's. You have also not asked them why they knowingly opened an account from a restricted territory (the UK). They themselves say they don't allow accounts from the UK to be opened so how did it happen? As I will continue to state had I won they would NOT have paid out winnings and their actions on kod1 accounts prove this point.

Casino Guru has said they stick to the Fair Gambling Codex.

I have read through it and it clearly states the following

Definition of fair casinos

A 'fair casino' is an online casino that:

Pays out all legitimate winnings

Doesn't have any unfair clauses in their Terms and Conditions (T&Cs) (more on this later in the article)

Doesn't use any deceitful practices to trick players

Enforces restricted countries (doesn’t allow players from them to create an account or play from a restricted country) and restricted bonuses (only gives bonuses to eligible players)

5. Restricted countries

The casino's point of view

Whenever someone from a restricted country registers, these casinos allow them to create an account, but only let them know about the restriction when they want to make a withdrawal. As long as a player is losing, the casino is OK with it, but as soon as the player wins and wants to withdraw money, they use the 'restricted countries' rule to decline the withdrawal and block the player's account.

This is, of course, extremely unfair, as players might register without knowing about the restrictions, and casinos are taking advantage of their mistake, often knowingly and intentionally.

If a player is able to access the casino's website, open the registration form, create an account, deposit and play, it's understandable that they assume that they are allowed to play at this casino.

Our position

It is not acceptable to let players gamble if a casino knows that they are from a restricted country

So if Casino Guru point of view is that it is not acceptable I am shocked that you still haven't asked Chipstars as to how the account form the UK was able to be opened. As I have stated previously I did NOT use a VPN and my IP address will have been from the UK, as were all of my registration details. The fact that they had the UK available on their drop down box of countries at registration would show that they were actively seeking UK customers.

Finally this is not a license dispute and I'm sure you are more than aware of that. Furthermore even if it was then the Curacao regulators as about as useful as a chocolate teapot. A Curacao license means no regulation at all.

I trust that you will now finally get in contact with chipstars as a complaints process has to involve all parties in the discussion. Up until now it would appear that despite overwhelming evidence I have provided you showing clear breaches of chipstars T&Cs, manipulated to their advantage you don't seem to want to find out why they have done this.

in answer to the question "why did you even register there if you did see that they do not have a UKG license?"

I am a severe disordered gambler and am signed up to gamstop which preevnts me from opened accoutns at any genuine UK accepting bookmakers. Chipstars were/are actively marketing for UK gambling addicts. just google chipstars and non gamstop to see this!!

I look forward to yours and chipstars replies

Hello dmr1,

Sorry for the delay as is took a while to go through all the e-mails you forwarded.

Based on the casino's terms and conditions and the registration form, UK is currently not restricted. If it's not restricted by it's terms and conditions, you are free to play there and it is always to player's responsibility to follow their local gambling law if there is any. There are some chat conversations with the casino where they claim UK is restricted but as it is over a year old, we can't consider it relevant in the present.

You even did contact the licensing authorities which explained the same situation to you and ruled in favor of the casino. They decided that the casino should refund you 5000€ while you received even more by your claim.

If by any chance, the casino breaches it's own terms and condition, it is the licensing authorities responsibility to pursue them and make them follow their rules and not ours as we do not have an insight into their agreements and terms.

All I can recommend you for now is to try to take legal action if you think the casino still owes you or contact some kind of authorities but our hands are tied and we can't enforce the casino to refund you anything in this specific case.

Is there anything else I could assist you with?

Hello Nick

Thank you for your response although I'm quite amazed at some of the things you have said.

Firstly you have not answered my questions regarding this very serious complaint.

I have asked you on numerous occasions if you have been in contact with chipstars regarding this matter and you have not once replied. Also I note you have never invited chipstars to join this complaints thread to discuss the matter. You can't have a complaints process where the casino does not even get involved can you?

Can you explain why chipstars have never responded on this complaints thread? Is it because they know they have broken their own T&C's on numerous occasions but only use this clause if someone wins? see kod1 complaint.

Casino guru's complaints process found that kod1 broke chipstars T&C's by opening an account from the UK and you sided with chipstars when they removed kod1's winnings and refunded their deposits. In my identical case you are now saying that I broke (they allowed me to break) chipstars T&C's by opening an account from the UK but in this instance because I lost chipsatrs don't have to refund my deposits. So as stated before a Win/Win situation for chipstars and nothing short of fraud.

You also say the following

"There are some chat conversations with the casino where they claim UK is restricted but as it is over a year old, we can't consider it relevant in the present."

So I have provided you with clear evidence from chipstars where they say the UK is a restricted country but you say it isn't relevant.

Of course it is relevant as being over a year ago is the exact time my account was operational with them. Cleary the relevant T&Cs are the ones that were in place when my account was operational are they not?

The easy way to resolve this complaint would be to ask chipstars to confirm if they accepted customers from the UK at the time my account was operational would it not? If they confirm that they didn't then clearly they will return all of my deposits. After all this is exactly what they did with kod1 complaint and casino guru were more than happy to agree that they had a right to cancel the winnings and refund the deposits. Why are you not enforcing the same scenario now. Since when did casino guru start telling complainants if a casino breaches their own T&C's it is a matter for licensing authorities?

Can you clarify that casino gurus position is therefore the following

a.If a customer breaches a casinos T&C's then you will automatically rule in favour of the casino

b. If the casino breaches its own T&C's you will say you can't do anything and recommend the customer to take legal action to recover their money

So again a win/win situation for the casino and clearly double standards from Casino Guru. That is hardly a fair dispute process is it?

Moving on , can you explain this that you said

"You even did contact the licensing authorities which explained the same situation to you and ruled in favor of the casino. They decided that the casino should refund you 5000€ while you received even more by your claim."

Firstly, can you explain where you got this information from?I trust that you have therefore been in contact with chipstars?

Secondly I can assure you that what you have said is 100% incorrect. I did contact the licensing authorities but can confirm that despite sending them numerous emails they NEVER once replied.

Therefore I trust that you can provide me the evidence of this blatant lie asap?

It would appear that despite receiving overwhelming evidence that chipstars have breached their T&Cs on numerous occasions you have no intention of ruling a complaint against them. Would you explain why that is please?

Casino Guru says under "How We Resolve Casino Complaints and Why

"Once we conclude that there is a real possibility that the player is in the right and we cannot solve the complaint by ourselves, one of our solvers contacts the casino and asks the representative to get involved."

You have already admitted that I have provided you with the evidence from the casino that proves I'm in the right so why haven't you asked the casino representative to get involved?

In light of everything I have said I would now appreciate the following.

Step 5 of your how to resolve casino Complaints says

We are very proud of this transparent system and the level of consistency we are able to bring into our decisions. What's more, every Wednesday we hold a special call that features 20 of our most knowledgeable specialists, during which the most complicated cases are discussed.

I would expect that given how complicated my case appears to be that the management of your complaints team thoroughly review it with the involvement of both myself and the chipstars representative. If chipstars have been lying to you then they automatically should lose the complaint as they have broken their T&Cs and are clearly not trustworthy either.

Hello dmr1,

To answer you question - we are in contact with the casino but we did not ask them to join here yet due some legal reasons and we always do invite the casinos only when the case is fully relevant.

To start with the other complaint you are referring to - you can't compare the 2 cases as in case of kod1, the player used fake information to bypass the casino registration therefor he had no right to receive any refund.

In your case, even if UK was restricted at the time of you registering, there is not a single instance where you can just lose all your money, pull out the terms and ask for a refund.

If you were aware of the restriction from the beginning, you should not have register there. If you were not, you should have contact the casino right after you find out about those restriction and not keep depositing and losing there.

In case you would win a high amount of money and the casino would refuse to pay out your winnings due your country restriction, we would definitely be on your side as it is unfair to let the player win without the possibility to withdraw. But your case is different where you simply lost and requested a refund. Every single player would act the same if the casino or the regulator would allow this move - register in a casino you know is restricted, lose everything and request a refund.

I would recommend for the future to register only in casino with UK Gambling license so you will never experience such issue again. Also as stated above, if you wish to continue pursue your case, you will have to contact some higher authorities as per our point of view, you lost that balance as you would lose it in any other casino and you can't just request a refund after suddenly realizing that you were not allowed to play there.

The complaint will be now closed for all the above explained reasons.

Best regards,

Nick