Bitcasino.io - Гравець оскаржує "виправлене" обертання казино в рулетку.

I made a bet of $20,000 on red, and the ball landed on 7 red! However, the game was halted after the spin. A new dealer arrived, placed the ball in the previous number, and initiated another spin. The result was 6 black and I lost my bet. Support explained that during the initial spin, the ball had spun less than three times, so the game was halted and the dealer corrected the error with a new spin. However, in such instances, the spin should be invalidated! How can one correct a spin? The ball had landed in a number slot! If the ball spins less than three times, then the spin should be cancelled, and bets should be refunded. Subsequently, new bets should be made, and a new spin should be undertaken. It seems to me that if a spin is skewed, the bets have been made and spins can then be cancelled until the desired number comes up. The casino's support team justified their decision by stating that the spin wasn't cancelled, but paused, and the dealer "fixed" the spin. Even if the dealer was correcting the spin, he should have initiated the spin on the last number and not the preceding one. If a spin is made on the previous number, then it's considered a cancellation! And how can one even correct a spin in the first place?

Я сделала ставку на красное в сумме 20 000 долларов - выпало 7 красное! но после спина остановили игру - пришел новый дилер поставил шарик в предыдущий номер и снова запустил спин - выпало 6 черное и моя ставка проиграла! как обьяснил саппорт - при первом спине шарик сделал менее трех оборотов, поэтому игра была приостановлена и дилер исправил ошибку - сделал новый спин! но! в данном случае должен быть отменен спин! как можно исправить спин? шарик упал в номер! если шарик сделал меньше трех оборотов - то спин отменяется и возвращаются ставки! после этого делаются новые ставки и делается новый спин! а так получается кривой спин, ставки сделаны и так можно отменять спины пока не выпадет нужный номер? сапорт казино оперирует свое решение что спин был не отменене а при остановлен! и дилер исправил спин! даже если дилер исправлял спин он должен был делать спин с последнего номера а не с предыдущего! если делается спин с предыдущего номера - то это отмена! и как это вообще исправить спин?

I studied the rules on the platform! There is no description anywhere on the platform of exactly how many revolutions the ball should make! Therefore, according to the rules of the platform, I think that I should be paid the winnings. If you take into account the real rules of the game, then - when the ball turns less than three times around the wheel, the spin is canceled - the ball returns to the previous number - and the bets are returned! there is no such thing as fixing a spin - tweaking it or something ////

я изучила правила на платформе! на платформе вообще нет нигде описания сколько именно должен сделать оборотов шарик! поэтому согласно правил платформы считаю что мне должны выплатить выигрыш. если учитывать реальные правила игры то - при обороте шарика менее трех раз вокруг колеса отменяется спин - шарик возвращается в предыдущий номер - и возвращаются ставки! нет такого понятия исправить спин - подкрутить что ли////

Dear miausann,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your negative experience with Bitcasino.io.

Please allow me to ask you a few questions, so I can better understand the situation. 

• Could you please explain if there is any record of your bet? (video, screenshots, gaming history)
• Could you please share your communication with the casino? Send emails or chat transcripts to my email at tomas@casino.guru, or post screenshots here

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you very much in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Tomas

I sent the letters to you by email, and I’m also posting the casino’s response here. To my question about the error they sent this response:

Hello *****,

Grateful for your patience.

Per our Game Provider, they checked the video replay and saw that the dealer made only 1 revolution. The dealer called a manager, and the manager let her make another spin. (The round was a little paused due to this step.) The procedure was correct, and we confirmed the round was not canceled. The winning number matches the round details.

If you have any other concerns please don't hesitate to contact us. Have a nice day!

Kind Regards,

Xianna

Customer Experience Team

I sent a reply to this letter:

No, you're wrong! If the ball spins less than three times, the round is canceled and bets are returned. I've been playing for a long time and know the rules. I play with you because I trust your casino and I know that you can play for large sums and everything will be fair! Now, according to the rules, you should also have canceled my bet because the spin was cancelled. You understand that an honest decision is to return the bet... let's find a compromise.

to which they replied:

Hello *****,

Thank you for reaching out!

As stated in our previous email, we investigated your case thoroughly and we confirm that the procedure was correct.

The round was not canceled and the winning number matches the round details.

Our casino team went through the video recording of the said round and the manager made another spin happen for you.

This is our final decision and there will be no further communication regarding this matter.

Thank you for your time and understanding!

Kind Regards,

Rina

Customer Experience Team

after that I sent another letter with my arguments:

if the spin was corrected then the dealer should have launched the ball from the last number! maybe this is a fix! but the dealer launched the ball from the previous number! it's cancelled! If the spin is cancelled, bets are returned! please study my question again and return my bid!

after that there were no answers

I also sent a complaint to Curaçao eGaming

The behavior of the casino team is simply fraudulent, if necessary they make the wrong spin, if necessary they cancel it, make a repeat spin! and decide what is most profitable for them! In all casinos, in case of a short spin, bets are always returned! If they have their own rules, this should be stated on the platform! but on the platform there is not a word at all how many times the ball must make revolutions and according to the rules of their own platform they must pay me the winnings! Therefore, I ask you to follow the rules and make me a payment!

я переслала письма вам на почту, так же выкладуваю ответ казино здесь. на мой вопрос об ошибке они прислали такой вответ:

Hello *****,

Grateful for your patience.

Per our Game Provider, they checked the video replay and saw that the dealer made only 1 revolution. The dealer called a manager, and the manager let her make another spin. (The round was a little paused due to this step.) The procedure was correct, and we confirmed the round was not canceled. The winning number matches the round details. 

If you have any other concerns please don't hesitate to contact us. Have a nice day!

Kind Regards,

Xianna

Customer Experience Team

на это письмо я отправила ответ:

Нет, вы не правы! Если шар крутится меньше трех оборотов то раунд отменяется и ставки возвращаются. Я давно играю и знаю правила. Я играю у вас потому что доверяю вашему казино и знаю что у вас можно играть на крупные суммы и все будет честно! Сейчас по правилам вы должны были так же отменить мою ставку потому как спин был отменен. Вы ведь понимаете что честное решение это вернуть ставку… давайте найдем компромисс. 

на что они ответили:

Hello *****,

Thank you for reaching out!

As stated in our previous email, we investigated your case thoroughly and we confirm that procedure was correct.

The round was not cancelled and the winning number matches the round details.

Our casino team went through the video recording of the said round and the manager made another spin happen for you.

This is our final decision and there will be no further communication regarding this matter.

Thank you for your time and understanding!

Kind Regards,

Rina

Customer Experience Team

после я отправила еще письмо с моими аргументами:

если спин был исправлен то диллер должен был запустить шарик с последнего номера! тк это исправление! но диллер запустил шарик с предыдущего номера! это отмена! при отмене спина возвращаются ставки! пожалуйста изучите мой вопрос еще раз и верните мою ставку!

после этого ответов не было

также я направила жалобу в Curaçao eGaming

Поведение команды казино просто мошенническое, при необходимости делают неправильный спин, если надо отменяют его, делают повторный спин! и принимают решение как им выгодней! всегда во всех казино при коротком спине возвращаются ставки! Если у них свои правила это надо изложить на платформе! но на платформе нет ни слова вообще сколько раз шарик должен сделать оборотов и по правилам их же платформы они джолжны мне выплатить выигрыш! поэтому прошу соблюдать правла и сделат ьмне выплату!

Do you have access to the video the casino mentioned in their response to you?

Could you please specify which exact game you played? (name of the game and game provider)

Good afternoon, I don’t have access to the video, the game is Bombay Live Roulette 2, I think the provider was Pragmatic or Evolution

Добрый день, доступа к видео у меня нет, игра Bombay Live Roulette 2, провайдер по-моему был Pragmatic или Evolution

Thank you very much, miausann, for providing the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Adam (adam.m@casino.guru) who will be at your service. I wish you the best of luck and hope the problem will be resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Hello miausann,

I have reviewed your case and will contact the casino to see if I can help.

We would like to invite Bitcasino.io to join the conversation and participate in the resolution of this complaint.

Dear Bitcasino.io,

Can you please provide more information about the roulette "no-spin'?

Kind regards,

Adam

Hello Casino Guru team,

The customer contacted our Support about a game round on the Bombay Live Roulette 2 game, which was deemed invalid. The ball made only 1 revolution, which means that the ball landed too early. The dealer called a manager, and the manager let her make another spin. As per the game rules:

If there is an error in the game, system or game procedure, the game round will be temporarily paused while the game presenter notifies the service manager. All players will be notified via a pop-up message, that Manager has been called. If the manager can immediately resolve the error, the game round will continue as normal. If immediate resolution is not possible, the game round will be canceled (within a few hours), and initial bets will be refunded to all players who participated in the game round

The round was paused due to this step and it was the correct procedure, and we confirmed the round was not canceled. This round was checked and validated by our game provider Bombay Live and the customer was informed accordingly. The winning number matched the round details and unfortunately, it was not in the customer's favor in this case. 

Please let us know if you need any additional information.

Kind Regards,

Bitcasino Team

Hello Bitcasino.io,

Thank you for your explanation. Would it be possible for you to provide us with the video footage of the respin?

It can be sent to my email address, adam.m@casino.guru.

Kind regards,

Adam

Hello all,

We have received evidence from the casino and this will now be reviewed. I will post a further update shortly.

Kind regards,

Adam

Hello miausann,

I have reviewed the evidence provided by the casino, and as frustrating as it might be, it seems that they have acted in accordance with the rules. While I appreciate that in land based casinos such a situation may call for bets to be returned, it is apparent that online live casinos generally allow for the spin to be remade from the previous number if possible, as if the miss spin hadn't taken place, and for the bets to remain as placed.

Can I ask why you believe the spin should have been made from the last number (the number that was the result of the miss spin)?

Kind regards,

Adam

I think we should act according to the rules! right? Where is it written that the ball must make 3 turns? I studied the rules on the platform! There is no description anywhere of exactly how many revolutions the ball should make! Therefore, according to the rules of the platform, I think that I should be paid the winnings. there was a spin and there was a winning number - make a payout! or write in the rules that the ball must make at least three revolutions of the wheel, if it makes less than 3 revolutions, then the ball is restarted and the bets remain on the tables! - one sentence! and no questions! Until this is written according to the rules on their platform, I must receive a payment! If I don’t get paid, then they are breaking their own rules! and act according to a vague formulation according to which it is fashionable to cancel anything! According to their wording, the manager decides everything - if the manager decides that there was a mistake, then he does what he wants! The casino must make a payout and add rules!

думаю мы должны действовать согласно правил! верно? где написано что шарик должен сделать 3 оборота? я изучила правила на платформе! вообще нет нигде описания сколько именно должен сделать оборотов шарик! поэтому согласно правил платформы считаю что мне должны выплатить выигрыш. был спин и был выигрышный номер - сделайте выплату! либо напишите в правилах что шарик должен делать минимум три оборота колеса, если он делает меньше 3х оборотов то шарик перезапускается и ставки остаются на столах! - одно предложение! и никаких вопросов! пока это не написано по правилам на их платформе я должна получить выплату! если мне не выплачивается значит они нарушают свои же правила! и действуют согласно размытой формулировки согласно которой модно отменить все что угодно! по их формулировке все решеает менеджер - если менеджер решил что была ошибка то он делает что хочет! казино должно сделать выплату и дописать правила!

Hello miausann,

I have checked the rules myself and found the following:

Also, you mentioned in a previous response to the casino "No, you're wrong! If the ball spins less than three times, the round is canceled and bets are returned. I've been playing for a long time and know the rules."

This suggests that you were aware that if the ball makes only one revolution it would be considered invalid, could you clarify this please?

Kind regards,

Adam

You are absolutely right! And the rules are right too! If a round is considered invalid, what happens to the bets? ))) right! Bets are cancelled!! Round canceled = bets cancelled! Or if the round is invalid, the casino is entitled to your money? Has the right to place repeated bets?? No!! And the casino says that the round must be fixed! They keep the money! And they bid for me! This is my money and I manage it! I want to put it or not! And it looks like you brought money to the hippodrome and the owner of the hippodrome, after the horse you bet on won, took it and changed your bet to another horse! Because those are the rules! Doesn't this seem strange to you?

But! Please show me the link where these rules are written? At the time of my bet they were not on the platform! The casino refers to the rules and does not pay me! The game must take place according to the rules of the platform! According to the rules, I won!

but if you study the matter and the correspondence! I didn’t initially ask for payment of my winnings! I asked for a refund! Because as you write correctly, I have been playing for a long time and I know the rules - if a short spin occurs, it is canceled and the bets are returned! New spin - new bets!

I don’t understand why you are on the side of the casino and are trying to find a reason not to pay me?

Вы абсолютно правы! И правила тоже правы! Если раунд считается не действительным то что происходит со ставками?? ))) верно! Отменяются ставки!! Отменяется раунд = отменяются ставки! Или при недействительном раунде казино имеет право на ваши деньги? Имеет право ставить повторные ставки?? Нет!! А казино говорит что раунд должен быть исправлен! Деньги остаются у них! И они делают ставку за меня! Это мои деньги и я ими распоряжаюсь! Хочу ставлю хочу нет! А так выглядит как будто вы принесли деньги на ипподром и владелец ипподрома после того как лошадь на которую поставили выиграла взял и поменял вашу ставку на другую лошадь! Потому как такие правила! Вам это не кажется странным?

но! Покажите пожалуйста ссылку где написаны эти правила? На момент моей ставки их на платформе не было! Казино ссылается на правила и не платит мне! Игра должна происходить согласно правил платформы! По правилам я выиграл!

но если вы изучите дело и переписку! я изначально не просила выплаты выигрыша! Я просила вернуть ставку! Потому как вы правильно пишете я давно играю и знаю правила - если произошел короткий спин то он отменяется и возвращаются ставки! Новый спин - новые ставки!

не пойму почему вы на стороне казино и стараетесь найти повод не выплатить мне?

Hello miausann,

Please understand that I am not taking sides, I am merely explaining the situation as I see it according to the evidence provided. If it is a standard procedure in online casinos that a mis-spin can be corrected/re-spun in this manner, and you were aware that the spin was not valid due to only making one revolution before coming to rest on a number, then unfortunately there isn't much we can do.

I am unable to provide a link to the rules, but you can find them within the game when logged into your account.

You have stated that the bet should be invalidated and returned on such occasion, but this is the main factor here because it does not seem to be the usual practice in online live roulette games.

We are going to discuss this case further internally, and I will post again shortly with our conclusions.

Kind regards,

Adam

Why can't you provide a link to the rules? Give me a screenshot where you can see that these are the rules of bitcasino.com, they don’t have this in their rules!

After there was a short spin, I was waiting for the casino to cancel the spin and return my bet, this did not happen and the casino took my money! after the casino took my money, I went to read the rules! according to the rules on the platform and the provider there was no information about the number of revolutions of the ball!

Do you still think that the casino did the right thing?! Taking players' money, taking advantage of the lack of rules and making up rules on the fly? Put yourself in my place?! You won and the casino canceled your bet based on the fact that they themselves decide when they want to measure the spin

Почему вы не можете дать ссылку правила? Дайте скрин экрана где видно что это правила именно bitcasino.com, у них в правилах этого нет!

Посде того как был короткий спин я ждала что казино отменит спин и вернет мне ставку, этого не произошло и казино забрало мои деньги! после того как казино забрало мои деньги я пошла читать правила!по правилам на платформе и провайдере не было информации о количестве оборотов шарика!

вы считаете до сих пор что казино поступило правильно?! Отбирая деньги игроков пользуясь отсутствием правил и сочиняя правила на ходу? Поставьте себя на мое место?! Вы выиграли а казино отменило вашу ставку оперируя тем что они сами решают когда хотят отмерить спин

This is a shame for the casino! According to the platform rules, I won! Pay out your winnings and don't embarrass yourself! They sold their reputation for 20 thousand dollars! Now everyone will know that if the issue amount is more than $20,000, they may not pay out the winnings!!! Looks like petty scammers!

Это позор для казино! По правилам платформы я выиграла! Сделайте выплату выигрыша и не позорьтесь! За 20 тысяч долларов продали свою репутацию! Теперь все будут знать что если сумма вопроса более 20 000 долларов они могут не выплачивать выигрыш!!! Как будто мелкие мошенники!

Also a big disappointment in your platform? What is her role? Just an advertising platform for a casino!? Where do you promote casinos for money and justify their actions?

The situation is simple according to the rules of the casino bitcasino.com I won! The casino, breaking its own rules, does not pay me! And you just cover them!

The solution is simple - the casino pays me the winnings according to its own rules! After that, he makes adjustments to the rules using his own rules!

Так же большое разочарование в вашей платформе? Какова ее роль? Просто рекламная площадка для казино!? Где за деньги вы пиарите казино и оправдываете их действия?

ситуация простая по правилам казино bitcasino.com я выиграла! Казино нарушая свои же правила мне не платит! А вы их просто покрываете!

решение простое - казино мне делает выплату выигрыша согласно своих же правил! После этого вносит коррективы в правила свои же правила!

Hello miausann,

Please be aware that the picture of the rule above is a screenshot of what was found upon checking the rules in the roulette game, here is a wider angle:

I have asked the casino to clarify some more details for me, and will post a further response shortly.

Kind regards,

Adam

Super! So the casino has updated the rules! The first step has been taken, well done! That is, if the casino updated the rule, they will a priori admit their mistake! And they must make a payment!! Or why change the rules if they are already right???

Another proof that this was not in the rules is that the casino did not initially refer to this section of the rules!!!

Let's check with the casino when they made this amendment? And when will they apologize, say thank you, and pay me?

Супер! Значит казино обновило правила! Первый шаг сделан молодцы! Тоесть если казино обновила правило они априори признают свою ошибку! И должны сделать выплату!! Или зачем менять правила если они и так правы???

еще одно доказательство что этого не было в правилах то что казино изначально не ссылалось на этот раздел правил!!!

давайте уточним у казино когда они внесли эту поправку? И когда они извинятся, скажут спасибо и сделают мне выплату?

Hello Casino Guru Team,

We have responded to your follow-up questions via email.

Thank you and let us know if you need anything further.

Kind regards,

Bitcasino Team

Dear miausann,

After further review of the evidence presented by both parties, I must inform you that we are unable to assist you any further with this case.

I appreciate that in many land-based casinos, it might be the case that bets are canceled and returned to the player in such a situation. However, it is not the usual procedure in live online games, and on this occasion it seems that the casino has acted in accordance with the terms and conditions and the rules of the game.

There can be no question that the round was a "no-spin" situation, you yourself stated that there must be a certain number of revolutions for the round to be considered valid. I appreciate that you have stated this wasn't present in the rules of the game, but when I checked I found it to be stated there. I have also clarified with the casino that the result of the round was never even registered on the board, and so was considered invalid from the moment the ball came to a rest.

Please understand we can only make a decision based on the evidence at hand, and consequently the complaint will now be rejected.

I am sorry we could not be of more help on this occasion.

Kind regards,

Adam