BitWin Casino - загальне обговорення (Сторінка 2)

Hello CasinoStreamer88, can you please share your email address, so that we can take a look at this?

Kind regards,

Ramu

Hello dear BitWin & Ramu !

I would like to do this, but I use my private email address which I do not want to disclose here.

I will write an email to BitWin Support with the keyword "Failed payments"

Best regards!

Hallo sehr geehrtes BitWin & Ramu!

Gerne würde ich dies tun aber ich verwende meine private Email Adresse welchen ich hier nicht offenlegen möchte.

Ich werde dem BitWin Support eine Mail schreiben mit dem Stichwort "Fehlgeschlagene Zahlungen"

Beste Grüße!

Hello,

Thank you, I will be waiting for the information and I will get back to you as soon as possible.

Kind regards,

Ramu

Hello there! 

Sorry for the delay in my answer, So I have had a chat with our Level2 and they have asked if you can try with another payment method, do you get the same error? We have also escalated this to our payment team who will take a look at this as soon as possible. Please let me know if you have success with another deposit method? 

I will get back to you as soon as I get in touch with you as soon as I get information why are the deposit failing.

Kind regards, 

Ramu

Hello Ramu!

No problem they answer quite fast 🙂

Unfortunately, the problem persists with all my deposits no matter which method I choose.

I've also tried using different browsers and devices, but unfortunately it's the same problem.

Hallo Ramu!

Kein Problem sie antworten recht schnell 🙂

Leider besteht das Problem bei allen meinen Einzahlungen egal welche Methode ich auswähle.

Ich habe es auch über verschiedene Browser & Geräte versucht aber es ist leider das selbe Problem.

I'm sorry - this is an open forum - it does not support Pm or DM.

I'm not allowed to provide any casino rep with a player's detail. You are free to ask players here and provide your direct email address, perhaps?

If you wish to support players, you are most welcome! Just use the reply button, please 🙂

My withdrawal is taking 5 days now, despite being verified. I asked their support but they're just asking me to come back later..

Honestly, if it's not more than 2 weeks, then I'd just suggest you to come to the chat and remind yourself about every 2nd day. Have you made any withdrawal in the casino before or is it your first withdrawal?

I received a bonus of 200 EUR from Bitwin.

I've been playing at online casinos for 15 years, so I now know what the bonus conditions are.

First I played JetX, betting 5 EUR for each jet (= one bet), and I didn't really win anything there. At Book of Sun I played again with a stake of 5 EUR and played through the bonus and then had 2250 EUR. I wanted to pay out this money.

Bitwin canceled the payout and said that I had played with a stake of 15 EUR. The bonus conditions only state that the stake must not exceed 5 EUR. JetX is a game in which 3 jets start and crash independently of each other or not. Comparable to 3 individual bets on football. You can win one game and lose the other two - or lose all 3. This is also how it is handled on another site where I played Aviator, for example. These are bets played independently of one another. There is nothing about this in the bonus conditions - it only states that you are not allowed to double after a game round. I couldn't read anything about this from the terms and conditions.

I didn't really win anything at JetX either. In the meantime, just to be on the safe side, I asked again in the chat, also about a different question, and a manager was supposedly interviewed by Bitwin - he had no concerns.

Bitwin's approach is really a disgrace - casinos are known to withhold payouts and take forever for verification. But the fact that the bonus conditions are simply interpreted the way you want is on the verge of fraud.

I have already filed a complaint. What do you think?

Ich habe bei Bitwin einen Bonus in Höhe von 200 EUR erhalten.

Ich spiele seit 15 Jahren bei Onlinecasinos, ich kenne mich also mittlerweile aus, wie die Bonusbedingungen sind.

Zuerst habe ich JetX gespielt, dabei jeweils für jeden Jet (=eine Wette) 5 EUR Einsatz gespielt, dort habe ich nicht wirklich etwas gewonnen. Bei Book of Sun habe ich dann erneut mit 5 EUR Einsatz gespielt und den Bonus durchgespielt und hatte dann 2250 EUR. Dieses Geld wollte ich auszahlen.

Bitwin hat die Auszahlung storniert und gemeint, dass ich mit 15 EUR Einsatz gespielt hätte. In den Bonusbedingungen steht lediglich drinnen, dass der Einsatz 5 EUR nicht überschreiten darf, bei JetX handelt es sich um ein Spiel, bei dem 3 Jets starten und unabhängig voneinander abstürzen oder eben nicht. Vergleichbar mit 3 Einzelwetten beim Fußball. Das eine Spiel kann man gewinnen und die anderen beiden verlieren - oder alle 3 verlieren. So wird dies auch auf einer anderen Seite, bei der ich zB Aviator gespielt habe, auch so gehandhabt. Es sind unabhängig voneinander gespielte Wetten. In den Bonusbedingungen findet sich dazu nichts - es ist lediglich angeführt, dass man nach einer Spielrunde nicht verdoppeln darf. Diesbezüglich habe ich aus den AGB nichts herauslesen können.

Ich habe bei JetX auch nicht wirklich etwas gewonnen, zwischenzeitlich habe ich zur Sicherheit nochmals im Chat nachgefragt, auch zu einer anderen Frage und da wurde von Bitwin angeblich ein Manager befragt - dieser hatte keine Bedenken.

Das Vorgehen von Bitwin ist wirklich eine Frechheit - man kennt von Casinos dass sie Auszahlungen zurückhalten, ewig für die Verifizierung benötigen. Aber dass die Bonusbedingungen einfach so ausgelegt werden wie man möchte ist nunmal am Rande des Betruges.

Habe bereits eine Beschwerde eingereicht. Was meint ihr dazu?

Hello, I would start first with the max bet and how we are approaching this. Our position is closely explained in Fair Gambling Codex. The max bet rule is, in fact, an industry standard, just as the fact that a casino has the right to seize the player's winnings from bonus play after breaking this rule. We prefer not to go against industry standards by penalizing casinos that use the maximum bet rule against players from time to time. 

However, from what you write, I understand that you placed 3 bets on jets of €5 each in the game and therefore the casino accused you of exceeding the max bet, since apparently the casino counted them as one bet in total. 

I'm not sure how this bet will be evaluated but if you didn't find anything in the terms and conditions and you think it's as you say, then it's the right step to file a complaint.

Anyway, now we will have to wait and see where our team gets to, because I saw that you wrote that you sent Veronica everything she needed. If you have an update, don't hesitate to share it, because I'm curious to see how it all turns out. Would that be possible ? 

Firstly, I would like to emphasize that I only had losses at jetX3, so these rounds were not decisive for my final profit. Secondly, I would like to share a brief description of the game:

"The gameplay of JetX3 follows the basic Crash game formula, but there's a nice twist here. Whereas most current Crash games allow you to place up to two bets in a game round, JetX3 actually allows you to place up to three bets in one go. Even better, you're betting on separate fighter jets, which is a major difference from essentially all the other Crash games. You're always betting on a single object there, so if it crashes early, you're out of luck, even if you placed two bets instead of just one. Here, however, losing a fighter jet early still leaves you with up to two second chances!"

https://slotcatalog.com/en/slots/JetX3

On this page you can also see that there are 3 jets that take off independently of each other. Comparable to 3 individual sports bets that start independently of each other.

I have provided all the documents, I'm still waiting for my transaction list, let's see what comes out. On the list you can see that I only had losses in this game.

erstens möchte ich betonen dass ich bei jetX3 nur Verluste erzielt habe, also für meinen Endgewinn waren diese Runden nicht ausschlaggebend. Zweitens möchte ich eine kurze Beschreibung des Spiels mitteilen:

„The gameplay of JetX3 follows the basic Crash game formula, but there’s a nice twist here. Whereas most current Crash games allow you to place up to two bets in a game round, JetX3 actually allows you to place up to three bets in one go. Even better, you’re betting on separate fighter jets, which is a major difference from essentially all the other Crash games. You’re always betting on a single object there, so, if it crashes early, you’re out of luck, even if you placed two bets instead of just one. Here, however, losing a fighter jet early still leaves you with up to two second chances!"

https://slotcatalog.com/en/slots/JetX3

Auf dieser Seite sieht man auch dass es sich um 3 unabhängig voneinander startenden Jets handelt. Vergleichbar mit 3 einzelnen Sportwetten, die unabhängig voneinander starten.

ich habe alle Unterlagen zur Verfügung gestellt, auf meine transaktionenliste warte ich noch, mal sehen was rauskommt. Auf der Liste sieht man dann auch dass ich bei diesem Spiel auch nur Verluste erzielt habe.

They have a pretty good welcome package with a 100% + 100 FS on the first and third deposit, with a 50% + 75 FS in between so I registered to check which RTP versions of the slots they were offering, and it wasn't terrible: they appear to have the better versions on Pragmatic and BGaming. NLC was at lowly 94% though.

Bonus terms seem reasonable enough.

However, their slot selection is absolutely minimal! They don't even have Buffalo King Megaways! Or Big Bass Bonanza! And no Punk Rocker for that matter.

Either that, or a lot of games somehow aren't showing for me. Surely, they can't have so few games?

There is no NOK currency available, which is most relevant for me, and they don't offer Mastercard deposits either.

Shame.

I understand this game and the description. I looked at it and I think the casino treats it as one game round even though you can bet on each jet separately. At least that's what it looks like to me since you were accused of going over the max bet. 

For now I don't want to jump to any conclusions and we will wait for the case to develop. It's great that you provided evidence and when you get more, be sure to add it to Veronika. 

However, I am quite curious how this will all turn out in the end. I will be waiting impatiently. 

Hey. Thank you for quite useful information. So is this casino the one for you to try or do you find another one based on what you described ? 

Regarding the RTP, what was the RTP of Pragmatic and BGaming ? 

As for the games themselves, did you ask the live chat if they have such a limited selection or are they just not showing up as you mentioned ?

Of course the casino counts it as a round. However, I see it differently and this is not stated in the terms and conditions. There are 3 independent jets. If I had known that this would be handled this way or if I had been able to read this from the terms and conditions, I would never have played this way. As I said, I've been playing online casinos for 15 years and I've never had a problem with a bonus. I would also like to mention again that I only suffered losses with JetX3 anyway.

I would never violate any points in the terms and conditions when it comes to bonuses.

by the way:

I only requested one day's game history from bitwin, they immediately wanted an informal application from me in accordance with the GDPR and claimed that they had 30 days to do so. So this transmission may take some time.

Dama basically has the best casinos, fast payouts, good support - but Bitwin is probably an exception here. Maybe those responsible for Dama should be held responsible here to revise the terms and conditions, as Bitwin obviously still makes a lot of mistakes and also seems to have really bad support when I read through the reviews on the Internet.

Natürlich wertet es das Casino als eine Runde. Ich sehe es jedoch anders und in den AGB ist dies nicht so festgelegt. Es sind 3 voneinander unabhängige Jets, hätte ich dies gewusst dass dies so gehandhabt wird bzw. hätte ich dies aus den AGB rauslesen könne hätte ich niemals so gespielt. Ich spiele wie gesagt seit 15 Jahren Onlinecasinos, ich hatte noch niemals ein Problem mit einem Bonus. Auch möchte ich nochmals erwähnen dass ich bei JetX3 sowieso nur Verluste erlitten habe.

Ich würde niemals bei Boni gegen irgendwelche Punkte in den AGB verstoßen.

übrigens:

ich habe von bitwin lediglich die Spielhistorie von einem Tag angefordert, die wollten von mir gleich einen formlosen Antrag nach DSGVO und berufen sich darauf, dass sie dafür 30 Tage Zeit haben. Also kann diese Übermittlung noch etwas dauern.

Dama hat grundsätzlich die besten Casinos, schnelle Auszahlungen, guter Support - jedoch ist Bitwin hier wohl als Ausnahme zu nennen. Vielleicht sollte man Dama-Verantwortliche hier in die Pflicht nehmen, um die AGB zu überarbeiten, da Bitwin offensichtlich noch sehr viele Fehler macht und anscheinend auch einen richtig schlechten Support hat, wenn ich mir die Bewertungen im Internet durchlese.

By the way: it is their right that the casino has this point of view. However, this is not apparent from their own terms and conditions. Their argument is not clear from these.

I have already spoken to a well-known lawyer and explained the situation. He also sees my point of view as the more coherent one, especially since on the one hand I didn't receive any answer about this in the chat, I didn't generate any winnings from the game anyway and mainly that this cannot be read from the terms and conditions. This should be sufficient argument, he said. The casino is obliged to create clear and transparent bonus conditions and cannot transfer this to the player. The maxbet 5 EUR rule is clear, 5 EUR per spin in a game, but here it is 3 spins. Due to the nature of the game these cannot be added together.

Übrigens: dass das Casino diese Sichtweise hat, ist deren gutes Recht. Jedoch ist dies aus ihren eigenen AGB nicht ersichtlich. Aus diesen erschließt sich deren Argumentation nicht.

ich habe bereits mit einem bekannten Anwalt gesprochen und die Sachlage erläutert. Dieser sieht ebenfalls meine Sichtweise als die schlüssigere, zumal ich einerseits im Chat gar keine Antwort diesbezüglich erhalten habe, ich sowieso keine Gewinne aus dem Spiel generiert habe und hauptsächlich dass dies aus den AGB nicht herauslesbar ist. Dies sollte als Argumentation ausreichend sein meinte er. Das Casino ist in der Pflicht, klare und transparente Bonusbedingungen zu schaffen und kann dies nicht auf den Spieler übertragen. Die maxbet 5 EUR-Regel ist klar, pro Dreher in einem Game 5 EUR, hier sind es jedoch 3 Dreher. Aufgrund der Art des Spiels können diese nicht zusammengerechnet werden.

I know exactly where you are going with this and it makes sense what you are saying. I think it should be clearly explained so that similar situations can be avoided. From my point of view, this case could be handled separately, but since I am an admin and not a complaints specialist, I am not sure how it will really be. So we will see what Veronika has to say. 

As for the game history, it's a pity that it can take so long, but maybe you can get it sooner.

Anyway, the more we talk about it, the more I'm interested in this case, so if you have any new information, don't hesitate to let me know. 

Hello

Thank you for telling us about your experience at BitWin. We are sorry that it was not satisfactory, particularly in regards to your withdrawal request.

We confirm that when you make a withdrawal request, our financial services analyse the request, and specifically check your gaming sessions. It was indeed detected that at least one bet did not respect the bonus terms and conditions of the casino since €15 was bet in a single game round on the JetX3 game. Our bonus terms and conditions clearly state: "The maximum bet while wagering is 5 EUR or equivalent." Each round of the JetX3 game allows you to place 3 bets. However, these 3 bets are made within the same round. The outcomes of the 3 rockets are independent, but they result from the triggering of the same game round, which is why your bet is recorded as €15, and thus exceeding the maximum bonus bet.

We apologise for the inconvenience this has caused you. If you have any doubts about any of our games in regards to bonuses, please contact our customer service team so that we can give you all the information you need before you start playing.

We strive to provide all our players with a positive gaming experience, so we will take the comments made in this thread under consideration to prevent any further misunderstanding regarding bets made specifically on crash games in future.

If you would like to discuss this further, or if you have any other questions or suggestions, please do not hesitate to contact us via Customer Services.

Thank you for your understanding.

You don't need to repeat what is already clear.

Your terms and conditions simply do not address this specific game. You can interpret it that way, that's your right. However, according to your terms and conditions, this can be interpreted differently - a lawyer I contacted confirmed my point of view.

However, if a casino starts looking for something when you win just to avoid having to pay out, then you have to warn against the casino.

For my part, I can only warn against playing with you, even though I have had good experiences at other Dama casinos.

• Almost 100% of the winnings come from the Book of Sun game
• I played a few rounds of 3x5€, not aware of it, I didn't realize that you interpreted your terms and conditions that way
• While playing, I specifically asked how this was interpreted - my question was simply ignored in the chat, screenshots are available. That's why I trusted that this wouldn't be a problem.

You're not even remotely accommodating. That's the problem with Curacao casinos, you can do whatever you want.

I therefore expressly warn you not to deposit even one cent at this casino.

Ihr braucht nicht das wiederholen, das schon klar ist.

Eure AGB gehen auf dieses konkrete Spiel einfach nicht ein. Ihr könnt es so interpretieren, das ist euer gutes Recht. Euren AGB nach kann man dies jedoch anders interpretieren - ein Anwalt, den ich kontaktiert habe, bestätigte meine Sichtweise.

Wenn ein Casino jedoch schon damit beginnt, bei einem Gewinn nur etwas zu suchen, nur um nicht auszahlen zu müssen dann muss man vor dem Casino warnen.

Ich für meinen Teil kann nur davor warnen, obwohl ich bei anderen Casinos von Dama gute Erfahrungen gesammelt habe, bei euch zu spielen.

• Fast 100% der Gewinne stammen aus dem Spiel Book of Sun
• ich habe einige wenige Runden 3x5€ gespielt, nicht bewusst, mir war nicht klar dass ihr eure AGB so interpretiert
• Ich habe WÄHREND dem Spielen extra nachgefragt, wie dies interpretiert wird - meine Frage wurde im Chat einfach ignoriert, Screenshots sind vorhanden. Deswegen habe ich darauf vertraut dass dies kein Problem darstellt.

Ihr seid nicht mal ansatzweise kulant. Das ist das Problem bei Curacao-Casinos, ihr könnt tun und lassen was ihr wollt.

Somit warne ich ausdrücklich, bei diesem Casino auch nur einen Cent einzuzahlen.