Betpas Casino - Хтось із Канади намагався зняти гроші гравця з його рахунку без його згоди.

I have been a registered customer of this online betting company since 11/2019, I have regularly deposited my money and bet on more than 6 months sports events without any problems.

 But when the balance on my account was quite high on 02.06.2020 = 18.285 TL (2.420 EUR) when I logged in the afternoon, I saw that the amount of 18200 TL disappeared from my account, so the balance was only 85 TL.

 I reacted immediately and called for a live chat, but what they answered was that I couldn't believe what they wrote?

 Their explanation is that on the night of 02.06.2012 02:40:03 someone from another IP address entered my account and tried to withdraw my money and then transferred my money to the casino because he failed and lost all his money. Here's part of their description via Live Chat

 It looks like your account has entered Canada on 02.06.2020 with an IP address of 217.138.213.158 on 02:40:03. 02.06.2020 02:40:03 You have logged into your account from IP address 217.138.213.158, first of all you were asked to withdraw money from your account at 02.06.2020 02:42, but when the withdrawal request was canceled by us, 02.06.2020 02:47:37 and 02.06 . On 2020 02:51:35, 18,200 TL was transferred to the Casino area and this balance was used in the Casino area.

 This is an unprecedented money theft that I have never encountered from a betting company.

 I have no Turkish identity, and this bookmaker later invited me to join me by email to steal money like this.

 If anyone can help, how can I complain to the competent Turkish authorities for this crime?

Dear Pedros,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint through our website. I’m very sorry to hear about your negative experience.

We will contact the casino and ask them for their standpoint, but before we do that, please, could you forward any relevant communication between you and the casino to my email (kristina.s@casino.guru)? Hopefully, we will be able to help you with this case as soon as possible. Thank you very much in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Kristina

Thank you very much Pedros for your email. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Matej who will be at your assistance. Cases like this are very hard to judge, but I wish you the best of luck.

Additionally, I would like to ask you to reply directly to this thread in the future. This is for us the quickest and easiest way of communication.

Hello Pedros.

I've checked your evidence and all materials, but I am afraid that here the proofing from either side would be very problematic. I can confirm that the live chat actions were correct, and they instructed you correctly on what to do in such a situation. On the other hand, it is strange that somebody changed your password. The support guy told you that it was a person from Canada's IP address but you can't see any unusual activity on your Yahoo account - and they said it is impossible to change the password without having access to your email account. 

The intruder action is very typical in this case - he/she tries to get money, and if this is not possible cause damage.

My best advice, in this case, is to contact the casino regulator (curacao) what you already did - We (Casino.guru) can only assume what happened in your case. (but can not proof) The casino needs to fully cooperate with the regulator and give them access to files which casinos do generally not share with us. That's why I believe that the regulator can help you more. So in your case, we will wait until the investigation from the regulator is finished and close the complaint accordingly.

I am very sorry that we can't help you more.

And finally, a few questions that indicate the suspicious behavior of the betting company BETPAS in general:

BETPAS bookmaker belongs to a large group of Turkish illegal bookmakers supported by PronetGaming and which bookmakers are constantly hacked by illegal Turkish authorities, so they often change their url by changing the bars to their name!

Why did the bookmaker BETPAS send me an invitation to open an account to my e-mail, so that I could open an account later.

Why my account with them was exclusively in Turkish Liras and why they accepted me as a player even though I do not have a Turkish ID, because they are strictly forbidden to join non-Turkish citizens.

I deposited my money through EcoPayz, and now as I see the option of depositing and withdrawing through EcoPayz does not exist on their site and often there are no payment options from the legal Turkish bank, which used to have them. Now there are only payments with BTC only? ?? What happened in the meantime?

The other day on the Turkish forum I met an identical case with a Turkish player, but when I posted a comment on that forum, his case just evaporated from that forum?

And finally, logically, if I'm a hacker trying to steal money from an account, if I don't succeed, what is the logic that I spend time transferring money to the casino, then playing games there and losing money, so how come I'm not there is some winning combination, but they were all losing, so I left the site ???

I am writing all this to you with the aim of giving you a clearer picture of the essence of this problem. I have been damaged in many bookmakers where, although not unfair, they call on their rules to take my money, but at least there was little logic in that.

But here we already have a situation that should worry us all. The question is what if, according to this example, many other bookmakers do the same thing and take money from players in the same way, while gambling platforms and the licensor support it ?? With that, every reason for the existence of online betting, players, licensors of rewiew sites and everything else will be lost. I think that we must immediately stop in the way of such fraudsters and cybercriminals.

I'm sorry to bother you, but in my opinion this is a very explicit case and I will not allow anyone to steal my money in that way.

I would ask for your comment on all this and if possible independently of all how would you judge this if you were a licensor ??

Also, if you have a suggestion or idea, feel free to write, it might help.

Lots of greetings

I na kraju nekoliko pitanja koja ukazuju na sumlivog ponasanja kladionice BETPAS u globalu:

Kladionica BETPAS spada u veliku grupu Turskih nelegalnih kladionica kome podrska daje PronetGaming i koje su kladionice kao nelegalne stalno hakirane od strane kometetnih Turskih vlasti, tako da oni cesto puta promenjuju njihov url mjenajuci brijke u njihov naziv!

Zasto kladionica BETPAS mi je poslala poziv za otvaranje racuna na moj e-mail, kako bi ja kasnije otvorio racun.

Zasto je moj racun kod njih bio isklucivo u Turskim Lirama i zasto su meni prihvatili kao igraca iako nemam Turski ID, jer je hjima strogo zabranjeno uclanivati nonTurskih drzavjanima.

Ja sam moj novac deponovao putem EcoPayz, a sada kako vidim opcija deponiranja i isplata putem EcoPayz ne postoje na njihovom sajtu a iasto tako ne postoje payment options sa lagalne Turske banke, koje ranije ih imalo.Sada postoje samo uplate-isplate samo sa BTC ???Sta se desilo u medzuvremenom?

Pre neki dan na Turskom forumu sam sreo identican slucaj sa Turskim igracem, ali kada sam upisao komentar na taj forum, njegov slucaj prosto je ispario sa tog foruma?

I na kraj , po logikom ako sam ja neki haker koji pokusava da pokrade novac sa racuna, ako u tome ne uspem, koja je logika da ja trosim vreme da prebacujem novac u casino, pa da tamo igram igrice pa gubim novac, pa kako nisam ima neku dobitnu kombinaciju , nego svi su bili gubitni, pa zatim sam napustio sajt???

Sve ovo vam pisem sa ciljem kako bi vi imali jasniju sliku u cemu je sustina ovog problema.Ja sam bio ostecen u mnogim kladionicama gde iako ne nefer nacina pozivaju ci se na njihovim pravilima uzimali moj novac, ali barem je malo imalo logiju u tom.

Ali ovde vec imamo situaciju koju treba sve nas da zabrinjava.Postavlja se pitanje sta ako po ovom primeru mnogo drugih kladionica rade isto ovo i uzimaju novac sa igraca na isti nacin, a pritom Kockarske platforme i licencor i podrzavaju u tom?? Sa time izgubice se svaki razlog postojanja on-line kladionice, igraca, licensora rewiew sajtova i sve drugo.Ja mislim da se odma mora stati na putu ovakvih prevaranta i sibercriminalca.

Izvinite sto vas zamaram ali po meni ovo je veoma eksplicitan slucaj i necu dozvoliti da neko na takav nacin pokrade moj novac.

Molio bih za vas komentar za sve ovo i ako je moguce neovisno od sve kako vi ovo bi presudili ako ste na mestu licencora??

Isto tako ako imate neku sugestiju ili ideju, slobodno napisite,mozda ce pomoci.

puno pozdrava

Generally speaking, for us is extremely hard to judge cases like this because we do not have access to the relevant data and to decide only from few screenshots doesn't allow us to see the situation from the bigger picture.

That's why we suggest you contact the licensing authority.

So back to your questions:

Why my account with them was exclusively in Turkish Liras and why they accepted me as a player even though I do not have a Turkish ID, because they are strictly forbidden to join non-Turkish citizens.

As far as I know, they were accepting players from other countries.

I deposited my money through EcoPayz, and now as I see the option of depositing and withdrawing through EcoPayz does not exist on their site and often there are no payment options from the legal Turkish bank, which used to have them. Now there are only payments with BTC only? ?? What happened in the meantime?

Time to time the payment methods are changed. I checked the casino website, and it was down. Usually, when a casino offers well-known payment methods (Skrill, Neteller, credit cards), it indicates that they operate legally. Working only with BTC creates suspicion that the casino may have some problems with legal payment methods. (but not necessarily) 

Maybe the Turkish government made some actions related to COVID-19, genuinely don't know.

The other day on the Turkish forum I met an identical case with a Turkish player, but when I posted a comment on that forum, his case just evaporated from that forum?

Maybe the case was solved, hardly to say.

And finally, logically, if I'm a hacker trying to steal money from an account, if I don't succeed, what is the logic that I spend time transferring money to the casino, then playing games there and losing money, so how come I'm not there is some winning combination, but they were all losing, so I left the site ???

Usually, hacker follows the pattern: try to steal money and if it's not possible, then damage the owner. Making bets in sports event takes time. In the casino, you can lose money much faster. If the person who was in your account win something in the casino, this person will continue betting until your account reach zero. (to damage you)

In your case, some things indicate that something is wrong. It is your yahoo account history and how the password might have been changed without email notification.

But as I wrote before, it is tough to prove anything from just a few screenshots - licensing authority has more options then we do.

Thank you for your response. I sent a complaint to the licensor a month ago.

I would again ask a question about point 2, where BETPAS sent me a screenshot from the logged IP address where one field is blank with the country of origin description of the IP address? This is strange to me because automated software cannot miss such information unless it is some unprofessionally fake photoshop document which I very much doubt. Also why their provider PRONETGAMING ignores many of my requests to send me an authentic logged IP address in order to compared to the BETPAS screenshot. Are they in some way trying to cover up the nonsense they did to BETPAS.????/ I hope LIcencor will look for such an original document.

In the meantime, I have sent a request for information about this case to the owners of that Canadian IP address - the company M247 and I expect their response.

There was also a question: BETPAS claims that they did not do it on my account because they do not know my password.

Maybe so, but on the other hand they have access to my login history, gambling history, transaction history, etc. In my opinion, it is very possible and easy through some paint program or I don't know what else, I can add fake transactions, bets, investments, payment requests, etc. that is, to make fake documents that would later attach to my account to make it look real, for which they are sent screenshots ??

I'm 100% convinced they did? I think I can do that, what do you think?

-As for the Turkish forum with a literally identical case, that post was written on 24.06.2020.I saw it on 26.06.2020 and immediately wrote my post and at the same time sent a comment to the Turkish player inviting him to contact me I even wrote my e-mail. The next day his post disappeared ?? Certainly it was not resolved because it would be published, it simply evaporated. Too bad I didn't do the screenshoot, I just typed in the internet address:

https://www.sikayetvar.com/sikayetlerim

Oh, now I see that my complaint has been canceled on this site as well. to look a little real ????

What are they not ready for ?? Woe to the players with such bookmakers !!

Hvala vam na ogovoru . Ja sam zalbu do licencora poslao vec pre mjesec dana.

Ja bi oped postavio pitanje oko tacke 2, gde BETPAS mi je poslao screenshoot sa logirane IP adrese gde je jedno polje prazno sa opise zemjle porekla IP adrese? To je za mene cudno jer atomatizirani softver ne moze propustiti takav podatak, osim ako to nije neki nestrucno lazan fotoshop documenat u cemu veoma sumljam.Isto tako zasto njihov provider PRONETGAMING ignorir mnogo mojih zahteva da mi posalju autentican izvestal logirane IP adrese, kako bi ga uporedio sa screenshootom BETPAS.Dali oni na neki nacin pokusavaju da prikriju glupost koju su ucinili BETPAS.????/ Ja se nadam da ce LIcencor potraziti ovakav originalni documenat.

Ja sam u medzuvremenu poslao zahtev za informaciju oko ovog slucaja do vlasnicima te Canadske IP adrese - kompanija M247 i ocekujem njihov odgovor.

Isto tako postavla se pitanje ;BETPAS tvrdi da to nisu to ucinili na moj account jer ne znaju moj password.

Mozda je to tako, ali sa druge strane oni imaju pristap do moju istoriju logiranja, istoriju kockanja , istoriju transakcije itd. Po meni je vrlo moguce i lako putem neke programe paint ili neznam sta drugo , mogu dodati lazne transakcije, betova , ulaganja , zahteva za isplatu itd.odnosno da naprave fake dokumente koji bi kasnije prikacili mom accauntu da to izgleda stvarno, za sto su mi poslali screenshots??

Ja sam 100 % ubedzen da su to i uradili? Ja misli da to mogu, sta vi mislite?

-Sto se tice turskog foruma sa bukvalno identicnim slicajem , ta je objava bila pisana dana 24.06.2020.Ja sam video to dana 26.06.2020 i odmah napisao moju objavu i istovremenu poslao komentar turskom igracu pozivaci ga da mi se javi cak sam pisao moj e-mail.Naredni dan njegova objava je nestala??Sigurno nije bila resena jer bi se to objavilo, jednostavno je isparila.Steta sto nisam uradio screenshoot, samo sam upisao internet addresu:

https://www.sikayetvar.com/sikayetlerim

Oh , evo sada vidim da je i moj complaint ponisten na ovoj sajt.Ocigledno je to njihov rewiew sajt gde prave zalbe se brisu a ostaju samo neki bezvezni kao oko bonusa, afilatea ili sl. da izgleda malo stvarno????

Na sta sve nisu spremni??Tesko igracima sa ovakvim kladionicama!!

Hardly to say why in the mentioned picture is Canada once missing - but this isn't a problem it doesn't prove anything.

I am sure that support guys don't know your password, but at least administrators of the website have access to the hash of your password (so they can log in), but €2200 isn't so much money for them to risk the players' trust and reputation - that's my opinion. Generally, in cases like yours, is it tough to prove anything.

I think in the forum the post was deleted because casino asked them to. They can just say, that it is not their responsibility to secure your password and that's your account was hacked that's a very logical argument to convince the forum moderators to delete the post.

Even in your case, I am not sure if we can prove that it was the casino behind this hacker attack or eventually punish the casino.

As I wrote before, for us, it is extremely hard to judge cases like this.

Thanks for the reply and thank you for giving a lot of time to my case.

We still have to wait for the licensor's decision.

Another question please, because I think you know this topic much better than I do.

In case the injured player has doubts about the veracity of the information, attachments, evidence received from the bookmaker (in this case BETPAS), whether he has the right to seek this information from the sports provider that provides technical support to the bookmaker (in this case PRONETGAMING) and whether is that provider (PRONETGAMING) obliged to provide the requested information to the injured player?

hello

Hvala na odgovoru i hvala sto ste otstupili puno vremena na moj slucaj.

Ostaje jos da cekamo odluku licencora.

Jos jedno pitanje molim vas, jer mislim da mnogo bolje poznajete ovu tematiku od mene.

U slucaju da osteceni igrac ima sumjle oko verodostojnosti informacije,priloga, dokaza koje je dobio od kladionice( u ovom slucaju BETPAS), dali on ima pravo da potrazi te informacije od sportskog provajdera koja daje tehnicku podrsku kladionice( u ovom slucaju PRONETGAMING) i dali je taj provajder ( PRONETGAMING) je duzan da te trazene informacije dostavi ostecenom igracu?

pozdrav

I am afraid it is not possible to provide information to players. Only the licensing authority can ask the platform/provider for some proofs, and these are not shared with the players.

It has a good reason. Some players are seeking an advantage to overcome the casinos. If they have access to proofs from platforms/providers, these players can find new ways of how to cheat in the casino, and that's the reason why this information is not shared with the players.

I don't agree with this statement. delivered a platform for something that happened two months ago?

And how will I know if that document has been issued and if I will have it available?

Is the licensor, in the case of Curacao, obliged to provide me with the required evidence when making a decision?

And one more question if he can: If in this case I am not satisfied with the Licensor's decision, what is the next stage of appealing that decision and where is it implemented?

Ja se ne slazem sa ovom konstatacijom.Ja trazim potvrdu listu logirane IP adrese na moj racun tog dana u formu screenshoota kako bi se uporedio sa screenshoot koja je dostavila kladionica koja je sa sumljivom porjeklu.Ja ne svatam kako se moze zloupotrebiti obicam screenshoot koja bi dostavila platforma za nesto sto se dogodilo pre dva mjeseca?

I kako cu ja znati dali je taj document izdat i dali cu ja imati ga na uvid?

Dali le licencor, u slucaju Curacao je duzan da mi dostavi taj trazeni dokaz prilikom donosenja odluke?

I jos jedno pitanje ako moze: Ako u slucaju nisam zadovoljan odlukom Licencora, koja je sledeca faza obzaljenja te odluke i gde se to sprovodi?

I am afraid no; Curacao license authority will only make a decision but not share any evidence.

If you are not happy with the Curacao license authority decision, then you could hire a lawyer. But in this case, that would be hard to succeed. 

I really would like to help you somehow, but I can't see how.

We have no access to the casino files, and it is something only regulator can solve.

I sent the complaint to Curacao two months ago. How long does it take Licencor to respond to my complaint?

And what if I don't get an answer from Curacao?

On our forum one player wrote that he waited for Curacao decision for more than a three months, so hard to say - it depends on the case complexity.

If they do not answer, then you should write to them again, because that's the last chance to see the money again.

I am afraid that in case of no reaction from the Curacao Gaming Authority, there is very little what we/you can do in this matter.

Unfortunatelly, I don't know how we could help more in this case. We have no access to information which can proof casino/player version, and therefore we decided to reject the case with status "insufficient evidence from the player."

Please contact the Curacao license regulator. They may help you.