BetOnRed Casino - Гравець стикається із затримками виведення через проблеми з перевіркою облікового запису.

I have had an account at Betonred since April 2023. Since then I have made many deposits and withdrawals. In the past I never had any problems and everything functioned properly. But recently Betonred has changed for the worse.

My account was verified a long time ago. They asked me to send in proof of address and ID which were accepted. Since my last successful withdrawal in 2023 I made 12 deposits, all of which I lost until the last one where I actually won €5825.57. When I tried to withdraw is when the problems began. My account which had long been verified suddenly became unverified. Since then Betonred has asked for documents which are refused despite being exactly what they asked for. As a result my last deposit and winnings are stuck on the site. This is the reason for my complaint.

Betonred demanded that I send in a selfie holding my ID in one hand and the current date in the other. I complied and sent this in. It was accepted. After that I was asked to send in a proof of deposit. In their email they asked for me to send a screenshot of my Bitcoin wallet which I used for the deposit. The screenshot was supposed to show the payment visible with the txid, date, time and amount. I sent them two proofs. In my first proof was displayed the date, time, amount and both the sender and recipient Bitcoin address. In my second proof, I took a screenshot of the page showing every conceivable detail of the transaction including the txid, hash and a several rows of extra data. My proofs were clear and not only provided deposit information requested but also much more data regarding the deposit. It was rejected and they sent me an email asking for exactly the same information which I had already sent.

There is no reason for Betonred to have refused my proof of deposit. I am happy to share all the screenshots of my proofs and Betonred's emails with Casino Guru privately if necessary. Betonred are using their verification system abusively. They offer no explanation of why the document is refused but just ask for exactly the same item that I previously sent without any acknowledgement that they already received it. It is abusive for two reasons. First, they did not ask for any verification when Î made my last 11 deposits which were for considerable amounts which I lost. Secondly, even when they receive exactly what they have asked for they refuse it without explanation. If a casino only uses verification when a player wins, that shows that it is not being done for compliance or AML reasons, but selectively to delay cashouts. What confirms Betonred's abusive practice is that even when the player complies with Betonred's excessive requests and sends them the sensitive, private information that they asked for it is still refused without explanation. It seems that they do not want the player to verify their account when there is a large enough balance on it.

I hope that Betonred are able to read and resolve this. I have played at the website for a long time and used to enjoy it. It had a great selection of games and solid support. It is disappointing that Betonred seems to have changed so much. I hope that it can change back for the better and become the excellent casino that it used to be.

Dear Lilianacosta,

Thank you very much for submitting your complaint. I’m sorry to hear about your problem.

Please understand that KYC is a very important and essential process, during which the casino makes sure that the money is sent to the rightful owner. As they don't have the luxury of being able to physically see all of the players and check their identification and documents, this is the only way gambling establishments are able to complete the verification procedures. None of the serious and licensed casinos take KYC lightly.

• Did the casino ask you for a particular deposit transaction to be found on the documents?
• Could you please share your communication with the casino? Send emails or chat transcripts to my email at tomas@casino.guru, or post screenshots here

I hope we will be able to help you to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Thank you in advance for your reply.

Best regards,

Tomas

I understand and agree that a casino needs to verify their customers identity. I have no problem with a casino using this procedure to make sure that their customers are who they say they are. They need to protect themselves and their customers. But there are clearly times when a casino uses this procedure in bad faith to justify delays and nonpayments. I believe that this is one of those times.

Yes, Betonred did ask for the details of a particular deposit to be shown. I sent this to them. I have emailed you a screenshot of their rejection email where they state the transaction that needs to be shown. I also included the proofs of deposit that I sent Betonred and were rejected. These proofs are screenshots of two different pages, the first showing the transaction straight from my crypto wallet's history and the second showing a detailed breakdown of that transaction. All the details that they asked for and more are available in those two proofs that I sent them. But still they reject the documents and then ask me to send the same thing again. I have already verified my identity in several ways at this casino.

Thank you very much, Lilianacosta, for providing the necessary information. I will now transfer your complaint to my colleague Mirka (miroslava.d@casino.guru) who will be at your service. I wish you the best of luck and hope the problem will be resolved to your satisfaction in the near future.  

Dear Lilianacosta,

My name is Mirka, and I will be assisting you in solving this case. Now I would like to invite BetOnRed Casino representative to join this conversation.

Dear BetOnRed Casino,

Could you please provide clarification regarding this case?

Thank you in advance,

Mirka

Hello, dear all!

Dear Lilianacosta, thank you for bringing this to our attention, and we sincerely apologize for any inconvenience you've experienced.

We understand that verification is not the most pleasant procedure, it can take time and unfortunately sometimes more than expected. While checking your account, we noticed that a screenshot of a deposit confirmation from your crypto wallet was requested.

However, the payment amount in the uploaded document does not match the amount you deposited, so we can't identify the payment. Could you please clarify that?

Thank you in advance for your cooperation and understanding.

Best regards,

BetOnRed Team.

You are saying you cannot find the payment. I am surprised that you would say that this when you could have used other criteria to find it. This is money that I sent to you and that was received by your casino, so I don't undestand how you would have difficulty finding it.

You can see that in my wallet screenshot it says I sent €1,017.32. You are questioning why that is not the same amount as the €995.57 that arrived in my casino account. But if you look again you will see that the transaction fee was €15.16. So only €1,002.16 was sent to the casino. That last missing €6 was eaten up by your processing fees and maybe also a decrease in value during the period the transfer was waiting to be confirmed on the blockchain.

I sent you everything that you asked for. You repeatedly rejected my documents without justification. And now that I make a complaint online you finally acknowledge that I did send you proof of deposit after all. But then, because of the amount being slightly different in my screenshot, you claim you could not find it in your system. This makes no sense. I assume other people have made Bitcoin deposits at your casino and that you must know what I have explained already: That there are are transaction fees, waiting periods and volatility. I do not believe that BetonRed is not already aware of this.

BetonRed goes on to deflect the issue I have brought up here by patronizing me and talking about how verification can be unpleasant and takes a while sometimes. This makes out that I am complaining about having to verify my account. I am not. A casino should verify their customer's identity for many reasons. I am complaining about Betonred weaponizing their verification system to delay payment of winnings.

I have now uploaded my ID, performed webcam facial recognition to match the ID, sent my proof of address, was then asked to send a selfie with my ID and the date written on it. I did all of these things. These should all prove who I am to the casino since all was approved by them. But now after all that they are wasting more time having me complete this ridiculous proof of deposit. I have sent it to them and they had never acknowledged this until I complained on this website. If I had not complained there is no reason for me to think it would have ever been aknowledged. And now they talk about the deposit size not being the same. This is just more deflection. I believe that the above shows clearly that the verification is not being used to verify the player identity but to delay or avoid paying cash outs.

Dear Lilianacosta,

Thank you very much for the clarification, at the same time from our side we request you to provide SOW

-a document (or a number of documents), showing the origin of the funds used for depositing in our casino, for example, salary statement, proof of business ownership, selling a property, an inheritance payment, or a divorce settlement, etc. (for the last 3 months)

Thank you for your understanding and patience!

Best regards,

BetOnRed Team.

Dear Lilianacosta,

Have you been able to submit the mentioned documents?

Hello,

I have seen this and will get the documents together.

But I would like to add that the casino only accepted my previous document after I opened this complaint. It is now verified . The reason for this delay apparently was that they did not understand the different amounts in the screenshot due to BTC transaction fee. They never asked me this until i complained. Why does it take a complaint to a third party to get a document verified. Why are they not already aware that BTC deposits have transaction fees which are sometimes high? I know I can't be the first person to send BTC to this casino.

Now I have been asked to provide source of wealth documents. Why were these not asked before? They take months to verify a document that I sent correctly only to ask for another.

It must seem obvious to the reader by now that the answer to all my questions is that Betonred weaponize their verification process to make it near impossible for a player to withdraw their funds. Without this complaint I would still be having my proof of deposit rejected without any proper explanation. I will get the document that Betonred has asked for. But by asking for this now they have made my point for me.

I have now uploaded the requested document onto the casino website.

Bet on Red asked me for a source of wealth "from the last 3 months". The document that I uploaded showed my only source actual income that I have within the last 3 months. It is a document emitted by the Portuguese government dated within the requested period. It is crystal clear. It was rejected. No explanation was given. They did exactly the same as they did with the proof of deposit document: Reject and then ask for the same document.

Dear Lilianacosta,

Thank you for uploading the document. However, as we see, you have not made any deposits in the last three months, so we are asking you for a document confirming your income for April and May, when you deposited a significant amount.

We hope for your understanding.

Best regards,

BetOnRed Team.

That is true. I have not made any deposits in the last 3 months. But on the website you asked for a document that showed an income statement emitted within the last 3 months. So on the website you ask for one thing but over here you ask for another. If I had provided you with proof of income older than 3 months it would have surely been rejected because it would not have been what you asked for.

The source of funds deposited that at the casino was not financed by income from an employer, the government, inheritance etc. I used funds which I had won at other casinos. I am able to send you proof of this. I can send screenshots of withdrawals from another casino's transaction history along with screenshots of those funds arriving in the wallet I used to deposit at Bet on Red.

Dear Lilianacosta,

Thank you for your explanation. If you won these funds on another site, could you please upload screenshots to prove it?

We appreciate your patience and understanding.

Best regards,

BetOnRed Team.

Dear Lilianacosta,

Could you please confirm, if you have been able to submit the requested screenshots?

Thank you.

Dear Mirka,

Yes, I have now uploaded the screenshots. I uploaded proof of a win from another casino. I sent 2 screenshots. One was of my transaction from another casino's history showing a withdrawal. The other is from my Crypto wallet history showing the withdrawed money entering my account.

BetOnRed can see that the withdrawal was made at 15:47 on the 2nd of May 2024. Those funds arrive in my crypto wallet on the same day at 17:01. The last deposit I made at BetOnRed was about 3 weeks after those funds were paid into my wallet.

At this point I have provided BetOnRed with my ID, webcam facial verification, another selfie some time later with handwritten date, a proof of address, several proofs of deposit, a proof of income from the past 3 months and now screenshots of withdrawals that I made at another casino.

Regards,

Liliana

The problems with BetOnRed continue. At the casino I was asked to send a document showing source of funds which had to be dated within the last 3 months. I sent a government issue statement showing income dated within the last 3 months. In this complaint, BetOnRed rejected this document, their reason being that it had to be older than my last deposit. My last deposit was over 3 months ago, so we immediately see an incoherence between what was asked for on the website and what was asked for over here. Everything is always rejected and it is a lose lose situation for the player.

I went on to explain that I had no income before my withdrawal apart from a win at another casino which was used to deposit at BetOnRed. I said that I could send a screenshot of the withdrawal from the other casino's transaction history and another shot of the withdrawal arriving in my crypto wallet. BetOnRed confirmed that they would like me to send that. So I uploaded it onto the website. I then received the following email:

"O seu documento Casino win transaction history.png foi reprovado (your document 'Casino win transaction history.png' was rejected) . Motivo: " Please upload a document (or a number of documents), showing the origin of the funds used for depositing in our casino, for example, salary statement, proof of business ownership, selling a property, an inheritance payment, or a divorce settlement, etc. (for the last 3 months). ".

But I sent them exactly this in my government statement before. It was rejected and a new request for screenshots on this complaint was made. I send them the screenshots, again exactly what was asked. It is also rejected.

BetOnRed are repeatedly proving my point in this complaint: The verification system is weaponized against the player to either delay or avoid payment completely.

Dear Lilianacosta,

We would like to remind you that the requested document (source of wealth) is part of the verification, and we expect the relevant document from you (for example, a salary statement, proof of business ownership, selling a property, an inheritance payment, or a divorce settlement, etc.).

The document that you provided earlier, namely confirmation of social benefits subsidized in June, is of no interest to us, since the source of wealth is requested to confirm the origin of the funds used for depositing on our website. Since you did not make a single deposit in June and the following months, we kindly ask you to provide a document for the period April - May, where in the income we could track the amount that you deposited to the account.

Moreover, we described our point of view in detail and sent you a response by mail, attaching a questionnaire, which we are still waiting for you to fill out.

In the questionnaire, you can also find more options for documents that are accepted as a source of wealth.

We hope for your understanding.

Best regards,

BetOnRed Team.

BetOnRed has moved the goalposts again. Here is a timeline of the events:

1. You reject my proof of deposit because you say that the amounts don't match.
2. I explain to you that the amounts don't match because on my wallet history it has the Bitcoin fee added and on the casino end it obviously does not. It is hard to believe that you are unaware of Bitcoin fees. You finally accept the documents after my explanation.
3. After several months of slowly drip feeding me requests for documents, you add another requirement. You don't ask for everything at once so that the verification can be done efficiently. You take a painful amount of time with each item and stall for a while only to ask for something else. You do this again and after all the confusion with the proof of deposit, you ask me for something else.
4. I log into the website and see that in the verification section there is a request for a source of income. The instructions on your website are very clear. You ask for a document showing income dated within the last 3 months. I upload exactly what is asked of me.
5. You reject the document because it wasn't dated before the deposit I made. Only that the last deposit I made was before the last 3 months. So in the casino you ask for a document dated within the last 3 months. Outside of the casino you ask for a document dated before this period. You don't acknowledge the contradiction in this complaint.
6. I tell you in this complaint that I have no such document dated before my deposit. I did not receive an income, own a business, receive an inheritance or a divorce settlement during that period! I tell you plainly that the funds used at your casino were generated from winnings at another casino. I ask you if I can send a screenshot of my withdrawal history from the casino I won from and a screenshot of those funds arriving in my crypto wallet history. You say that I should send those and that is written in this complaint.
7. I send you 2 screenshots. One of my withdrawal from the other casino and one of the withdrawal arriving in my crypto wallet. Again, exactly what we agreed on in this complaint.
8. You email me rejecting it because it is not from your category of acceptable proofs and it is not dated within 3 months!

I have no income prior to that period which fits into the categories that you have asked for. All I have is my casino winnings from the other casino, proof of which you currently have. Not having received a divorce settlement or having a regular paying job that sends me an income statement shouldn't disqualify my right to receive money that I both deposited and won at your casino. Is a player not allowed to win at another casino and then deposit those winnings at yours? You wanted to know where the money came from with your source of income request. Now you have it. Winnings at a casino do not come with an income statement or official documentation. I have proved the source of the money deposited at your casino beyond any reasonable doubt.

You actually asked me in this complaint to send the screenshots of the withdrawal from the other casino a few messages ago. I sent them and then you didn't even acknowledge that I did. It was systematically rejected for not being a conventional proof of income within 3 months. You are still talking about the social security statement which we had already covered here and moved past. I had asked if you would like these screenshots of my casino winnings and you agreed. Now that you have them we are moving backwards again.

Dear Lilianacosta,

The screenshots you provided as proof of income, namely screenshots of winnings from another casino, are not informative for us, since there is no personal data about you, and we cannot identify the payment, so we ask you for official proof of income.

Please be assured that the documents are rejected not because the date of their receipt is more than 3 months ago, but because this is not the type of document that we can accept. We expect you to confirm your income exclusively for April - May, which we consider logical, since the requested document must confirm your deposits.

As mentioned earlier, in addition, we expect a completed questionnaire, which we sent you on October 1. The questionnaire indicates alternative documents that you can provide as a source of income.

We hope for your understanding.

Best regards,

BetOnRed Team.

I have to repeat myself for the third time. I had no income during that period. If I had no income that means there can't be any official documentation showing income. I deposited solely using winnings from another casino.

Betonred is performing a source of wealth check. They have stated in this complaint that they want to know where the money that I deposited at their casino came from. As I have already said that money came from winnings at another casino. Why do they want to know unrelated aspects of my private financial information. Can Casino Guru say if it is reasonable for a casino to demand to know a client's salary? I've never seen anything like this before.

Betonred, you have said that you cannot accept the casino win screenshot as proof because it contains none of my personal information. That I can understand. The withdrawal is shown the casino transaction history and nowhere on that screen does it say my name due to the layout of the website. So today I logged into that casino and took a screenshot of the personal details page. That page shows all of my details including my full name and address. Betonred will be able to see that it is the same casino where the transaction history came from. The screenshot has been uploaded to their casino.

I am hoping that this might finally work because I will not be able to send official documentation showing a salary that I never received. This is an impossibility. If Betonred refuse then there is nothing that I can do and I'll have to accept that they will not pay me my winnings. In that case I will open a dispute with their regulator in Curacao. Since no official documentation exists for casino winnings and BetOnRed continue to say that I must send this along with their questionairre, I don't think anything I am able to do will get past this. If they refuse what I have now sent them, I don't see how I can possibly pass their verification and will think that continuing this complaint will be a waste of everyone's time. If they do refuse, I thank Casino Guru for their time and respectfully ask that they weigh in on the following:

1. Have I not sent enough proof that due to any reasonable standard I should be verified and paid by now?
2. Is it reasonable that BetOnRed demand to know my annual earnings or how much I spend a year? Is this not private?

Many thanks

Dear Lilianacosta, 

Please understand, that know your customer (KYC) is a very important and essential process, during which the casino makes sure that the money is sent to the rightful owner. As they don't have the luxury of being able to physically see all of the players and check their identification and documents, this is the only way gambling establishments are able to complete the verification procedures. Players need to be compliant with the KYC policy of the Casino in which they are playing.

It is a standard practice, that casinos can request private information and documents from their players. What would be problematic, is if they decided to share it outside of the organization without your consent.

That is why I would advise you to try to submit the requested documents in the form casino demands. If you believe, that you did everything according to their requests, and there is still problem with finishing the verification process, please forward me the documents to miroslava.d@casino.guru for review.

Thank you for your cooperation.

I am not sure if Casino Guru has had the opportunity to check the proof of winnings that I emailed last week?

BetOnRed, you actually have a list of acceptable proofs for source of income that derives from winnings at other casinos. That list consists of 3 acceptable items:

• Letter from the relevant organization (Lottery headquarters/betting

shop/casino)

• Cheque
• Winnings’ receipt or certified copy

You are a casino that accepts crypto transactions. So you must be aware that no casino will ever send their winners a posted letter. No crypto casino pays their customer with a cheque, since withdrawals must be made by the same payment method as a deposit. Finally, no casino would ever provide their winners with a physical winnings receipt or certified copy of any document.

So BetOnRed must see that no player who deposited crypto winnings at their casino could possibily provide any of the the proofs that are listed on this document. As they must know, the only way that a gambler can prove that they won in this way was with screenshots. But you say that screenshots are not "official". So how do you expect gamblers in my position to be able to prove their winnings? What would be an acceptable proof to you instead of the 3 official items that you have listed which are impossible to provide? Can BetOnRed not see that they ask for the impossible? This list reads like something that I imagine a physical betting shop might have once provided their players with back in the 90s. A winnings receipt or a cheque? You do not provide your crypto players with any of these. So how can you expect us to obtain them?

Finally, I would like to add that BetOnRed's reasoning for rejecting my screenshots were that my name was not on the transaction history at the third party casino where my SOW originated from. Following that, I logged into that casino and took a screenshot of the profile page which showed all my personal details. All of those details are the same that BetOnRed have in their profile of me. So apart from all the other documents, BetOnRed now have screenshots of the winnings being received in my crpyto wallet, of the withdrawal being processed at the third party casino and of my personal info page at that same casino.

BetOnRed, you have proof of the origins of the funds deposited at your casino. You know fully that screenshots are the only kind of proof that can be provided for anyone who is using crypto won at another casino.

Dear Lilianacosta,

We had the chance to review the documents you sent, and it is understandable, that it is hard to match the transactions to your name, since on the screenshots from the blockchain, the owner of the wallet is not visible.

Could you please specify, which crypto wallet you use for your transactions?

Thank you.

Dear Lilianacosta,

We are extending the timer by 7 days. Please, be aware that in case you fail to respond in the given time frame or don’t require any further assistance, we will reject the complaint.

Hi Mirka,

Thanks for the extension. I did send two emails to you last week showing the screenshots that I sent. But I should have also replied here.

The crypto wallet that I used was Blockchain Wallet. Like many other crypto wallets details are sparse. It is not like a bank or e-wallet that shows all of the client's personal details. I did include a page in my screenshots that shows my email address.

I can understand BetOnRed's point of view that it might be hard to see all the information they might ideally want. But I think when all the screenshots are analysed in relation to each other instead of looking at each one in a vaccuum, there is enough information to conclude the following:

1. I made a withdrawal from a third party casino as seen in their transaction history
2. My full details including name, address, email and more can be seen on the profile page at that casino. So it can be concluded that the identity of the person making that withdrawal was me.
3. Those details are identical to the ones that BetOnRed have on record for me.
4. Those funds were received in my Blockchain Wallet.
5. Blockchain Wallet may not have a page with full personal details on it (like many crypto wallets) but:
6. There is a page on it showing my email address which is the same I used at BetOnRed.
7. The same amount withdrawn (less transaction fees) can be seen entering the Blockchain Wallet.
8. It enters very soon after the withdrawal was made from the casino as shown by both time stamps.

So if we look at all the information as a whole we can see that although all of my personal details cannot be seen on both ends, my full information is actually there on the casino end and there are enough data points on the Blockchain Wallet end for us to conclude that the withdrawal was received there a shortly before it would go on to be deposited at BetOnRed.

I would also like to note that BetOnRed accepted similar screenshots from my Blockchain Wallet as "proof of deposit". Similar screenshots were sent and verified.